Seiza (Japanese sitting) suitable for meditation? Any experience to share?

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Seiza (Japanese sitting) suitable for meditation? Any experience to share?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

It seems dangerous to knees & circulation, but these are claims about benefits.


"Seiza: The Japanese way of sitting that corrects posture, adds years to life"
https://www.timesnownews.com/health/art ... ife/780705





"Seiza for Meditation"
  • A benefit of maintaining Seiza position while meditating is to balance being upright while having the body relax.
    http://yabai.com/p/2761
  • Image




Adaptations seem to be less threatening:
  • Image
:heart:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Seiza (Japanese sitting) suitable for meditation? Any experience to share?

Post by Ceisiwr »

I find it excruciating after a short time.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Seiza (Japanese sitting) suitable for meditation? Any experience to share?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

From some search results:
  • Kenshou wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:14 pm ...
    I find seiza to be quite comfortable, but I don't plan to switch to that unless I have to.
  • Sam Vara wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:49 am If you mean what Japanese call seiza, I would advise caution if you feel pain.

    Despite studying martial arts for years, and doing daily stretching, I never could manage it. Things are made easier if you stretch the big thigh muscle (various techniques, including standing on one leg, holding onto your other foot, and gently stretching it up behind your buttock). Pain in the foot is sometimes also caused by contact with the floor, so a softer mat might help.

    Knee pain is always worth paying serious attention to. I know several people who persisted in fighting joint pain in the interests of achieving flexibility, and who are now suffering for it. It might just be that some of us are not by nature meant to do this stuff!
  • Tex wrote:I deal with knee pain myself, so that sitting Burmese or lotus for more than about 15 minutes is out. But I can sit seiza on the zafu for 45 minutes, no problem. Highly recommend it. viewtopic.php?p=395414#p395414
  • narhwal90 wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:46 am ... I prefer to sit seiza on a firm surface but still need a couple 2-3 minute breaks per hour to restore circulation, its a tough posture to hold.
  • SciFiFanatic101 wrote: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:13 pm ...
    I've been meditating in the Japanese seiza position for some months and was doing fantastic progress, at some point staying in that position for 2 hours in the morning. The first hour was simply a rush of thoughts, but the second provided brief windows of mental calm that were simply breathtaking. ...

I also read somewhere quite a while ago about a person taking 10-day retreat sitting in seiza without problem for the first days. At one point, a knee injury occured suddenly in a sitting without warning pain. I don't remember where I read it.
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Seiza (Japanese sitting) suitable for meditation? Any experience to share?

Post by Coëmgenu »

It's probably like the so-called "Asian squat," which is actually a normal deep squat and isn't particularly Asian at all. People have trouble with it if they haven't built the muscles up. They end up eccentrically overstraining their bodies.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
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samseva
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Re: Seiza (Japanese sitting) suitable for meditation? Any experience to share?

Post by samseva »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:11 pm It's probably like the so-called "Asian squat," which is actually a normal deep squat and isn't particularly Asian at all. People have trouble with it if they haven't built the muscles up. They end up eccentrically overstraining their bodies.
Yes, and it's important to keep in mind Japanese have been doing this since they were children, so their knee ligaments and so on are less likely to be damaged when meditating for say 1-2 hours. Someone who starts doing this posture as an adult is more likely to permanently damage their knees.

Maybe it can be fine with extensive stretching and working into the position over the course of a few months. I personally would ask a physiotherapist, though, before delving and accumulating 100 hours of meditation with this posture (or any psoture for that matter).
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samseva
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Re: Seiza (Japanese sitting) suitable for meditation? Any experience to share?

Post by samseva »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:18 pm Any experience to share?
Personally, I used this posture a number of years ago when I was meditating at a small Zen dojo, which after a few months of moving into a new apartment, I had discovered was from walking distance from where I lived. The posture works, but I had to use four or so large buckwheat cushions to prop me up.

I didn't stay there long though, as the dojo master was somewhat domineering (my short time meditating there felt a bit like being a soldier). The dojo also had a monthly or yearly subscription fee, which I thought didn't justify the cost. So I preferred meditating on a small wooden bench for free at my apartment—and for longer durations of time, all without any form of knee or bodily pain.
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Seiza (Japanese sitting) suitable for meditation? Any experience to share?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

samseva wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:41 pm ...
it's important to keep in mind Japanese have been doing this since they were children, ...
...

Yes, that's important.

:heart:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Seiza (Japanese sitting) suitable for meditation? Any experience to share?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Similar or same posture?
      • Image






Topic: "slightly swollen knee after long meditation sessions"
azercay wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:04 am hello!
I have a questio: after 10 days of retreat and a month of intense meditation, I see that my knee is a little swollen and fills unpleasant (I can’t say that it hurts a lot, but something is clearly happening there). i'm practicing in the Vajrasana pose. I suppose that it is worth changing it and sitting on a chair with a straight back. maybe there is some advice. i know that i can continue in a Varjrasana, but I'm afraid to make it worse.
thank you for your time.


And, David's comments:
DNS wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:58 pm
azercay wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:04 am i'm practicing in the Vajrasana pose.
I googled that and see it's the kneeling pose, sitting directly on your calves and ankles. That sounds painful, if done over a long period of time (and this comment coming from someone who sits in full lotus).

Can you sit in any of the cross-legged positions? If not, a chair is fine.
DNS wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:02 pm If after seeking medical advice, you are able to return to that posture, use a kneeling bench as shown in previous posts. Or if you don't have one, you could put a zafu in that place.

Image

At least even a zafu would take all that weight off the legs and ankles!
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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