Is there a hierarchical sequence of accepting Buddha's teaching?

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SarathW
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Is there a hierarchical sequence of accepting Buddha's teaching?

Post by SarathW »

Is there a hierarchical sequence of accepting Buddha's teaching?
1) Sutta
2) ?
3) commentaries or Atua and Tika
4) Personal interpretations.

What is the Sutta source?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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DooDoot
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Re: Is there a hierarchical sequence of accepting Buddha's teaching?

Post by DooDoot »

1) Sutta
2) Sutta
3) Sutta
4) Sutta

DN 16; SN 20.7; SN 56.31; MN 38; etc
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
SarathW
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Re: Is there a hierarchical sequence of accepting Buddha's teaching?

Post by SarathW »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:50 am 1) Sutta
2) Sutta
3) Sutta
4) Sutta

DN 16; SN 20.7; SN 56.31; MN 38; etc
I respect your sentiments, but we can't learn only by studying Tipitaka.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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DooDoot
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Re: Is there a hierarchical sequence of accepting Buddha's teaching?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:21 am we can't learn only by studying Tipitaka.
How can that be when someone as learned as my brilliant self has never studied Abhidhamma or Commentary?

My impression is Abhidhamma or Commentary simply confuses people.

Are you claiming you have learned Buddha-Dhamma better than me? :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
SarathW
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Re: Is there a hierarchical sequence of accepting Buddha's teaching?

Post by SarathW »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:51 am
SarathW wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:21 am we can't learn only by studying Tipitaka.
How can that be when someone as learned as my brilliant self has never studied Abhidhamma or Commentary?

My impression is Abhidhamma or Commentary simply confuses people.

Are you claiming you have learned Buddha-Dhamma better than me? :smile:
It is not enough to learn but you have to practice it to understand it properly.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Ontheway
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Re: Is there a hierarchical sequence of accepting Buddha's teaching?

Post by Ontheway »

This is my personal experience. Just sharing.

Contemporary books -> Suttanta Pitaka books -> Abhidhamma Pitaka books -> Suttanta Pitaka books with Atthakatha only -> Abhidhamma Pitaka books with Atthakatha only -> Suttanta + Abhidhamma Pitaka books with Atthakatha comparative study (so far I am here)

But Pali Tipitaka is such a vast ocean of knowledge, I doubted even with my entire life couldn't finish reading them. Really respect those ancient Arahants that memorised the teachings and preserved for us the future generations. :candle: :candle: :candle:
How can that be when someone as learned as my brilliant self has never studied Abhidhamma or Commentary?
So much of arrogance, self-obsession, and delusion...
"The Buddha is like the rising sun; the Dhamma as already stated is like the web of his rays; and the Sangha is like the world rid by him of darkness."

Paramatthajotikā
(The Illustrator of Ultimate Meaning)
Joe.c
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Re: Is there a hierarchical sequence of accepting Buddha's teaching?

Post by Joe.c »

Funny, i have the same answer as Doodoot.

Study only Sutta, and don’t diverge. But get right view first.

Remember reflection of dhamma characters.

svakkhato bhagavata dhammo = Teaching of Buddha is clear and concise. (No need commentaries).

Also refer to DN 29, which Buddha said his discourses are complete and pure. Whoever add or remove things to make it more pure, he/she doesn’t know the teaching.

To get right view, 2 conditions for right view to arise (MN 43).
1. Voice of another (from another ariya)
2. Focus attention with your mind (mano) when hearing the teaching. (Yoniso mana-sikara)

Also 4 factors of stream enterer (SN 55.5)
1. associating with good people (sapurrisa)
2. listening to the true teaching (sutta only)
3. Focus attention with your mind (mano) when hearing the teaching. (Yoniso mana-sikara), and
4. practicing in line with the true teaching.
Also, ordinary person will never know who is ariya. But ariya will know another ariya. This is important for getting right view. This is describe also in MN 2 and other sutta.
Take an uneducated ordinary person (putujjhana) who has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the noble ones. …

But take an educated noble disciple who has seen the noble ones, and is skilled and trained in the teaching of the noble ones. They’ve seen true persons, and are skilled and trained in the teaching of the true persons. …
All his teaching related to 4NT, DO/DC, etc.

One problem I see is that when people dont have right view. They try to reach Nibbana right away. That is not possible. It is like trying to teach a baby with university class. They just get frustrated and make something up along the way.
Pulsar
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Re: Is there a hierarchical sequence of accepting Buddha's teaching?

Post by Pulsar »

Joe.c wrote
Funny, i have the same answer as Doodoot.
Study only Sutta, and don’t diverge. But get right view first.
Remember reflection of dhamma characters.
svakkhato bhagavata dhammo = Teaching of Buddha is clear and concise. (No need commentaries).
Also refer to DN 29, which Buddha said his discourses are complete and pure. Whoever add or remove things to make it more pure, he/she doesn’t know the teaching.
That is a pretty cool comment.
VBB writes on page 16, in the Preface to the Samyutta nikaya..."The fact that I cite commentaries so often in the notes does not necessarily mean that I always agree with them"

Thanks for mentioning DD. I so miss him. What was his answer?
My impression is Abhidhamma or Commentary simply confuses people.
Funny, I too agree with him. Folks who are proponents of Abhidhamma are unable to explain how Paticca samuppada works using their abhidhammic principles.
Maybe there is some smart person out there, who will rise to the occasion.
with love :candle:
Joe.c
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Re: Is there a hierarchical sequence of accepting Buddha's teaching?

Post by Joe.c »

My impression is Abhidhamma or Commentary simply confuses people.
I agreed with this statement as well. I studied it, then I got more confused because it doesn't match up well with Sutta. I think it may lead to new follower to the wrong path.

Point of contention in abhidhamma is Sankhara. People translate it as choices or kamma related. But this is not if you read SN12.2 DO analysis and you correlate it with Jhana description and SN 41.6 2nd Kamabhu Sutta. By understanding this, your practice will progress very fast. One doesnt need to only sit meditate to be in Jhana. :)

Basically, if you understand DO/DC, it doesnt related to kamma or rebirth. To practice, N8FP is to transcend all those. But doesnt mean you wont experience kamma result or rebirth. But, you dont care because the body and mind is not you. You dont personalize (upadana) your cummulative of perceptions(panca khandha) that has arisen. Because if you do, you have Dukkha.

My suggestion, check the comment, then refer to other Sutta. Some translations can be misleading, so one need to be diligent to check the Pali word and search for other Sutta with this Pali word to get the other view/perspective.

Sorry being sidetrack. I can explain more, but I doubt people want to listen.

btw what happen to DooDoot, I see his username is gone.
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