Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

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SarathW
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Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by SarathW »

Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?
In my opinion, the Gauthama Buddha is the most influential man in history however his achievement is not yet recognized by many even in India, his birthplace.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100:_ ... in_History
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Sam Vara
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by Sam Vara »

SarathW wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:18 am Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?
He certainly has fewer posts on DW than you, Sarath.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by Mahabrahma »

If you believe Buddha comes in many forms, then you are fully correct that He is. And He is. Don't just limit Him to His form 2500 years ago as Prince Siddhartha, but feel His essence in the Universe, He is there, with us, and many other Buddhas and Arhats who propigate the Dharma in the Ocean of Universes of the Saha world, where each Universal world is like a bubble in the Atlantic. His influence is the Dhamma, and as Truth, I believe it is an all prevading essence. Om. :candle: :buddha1:
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that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by JamesTheGiant »

To current world history, I think the Buddha is much less important than #4.
Maybe #40.
To be honest, if he had never lived maybe there would be nothing much different except Thailand and Myanmar would have some mixed folk religion related to Hinduism, and Sri Lanka would be Catholic.
But what do I know, I ain't a counterfactual alternate historian.

But to the universe in general, he's #1, if that makes any sense. And to me personally he's also most important historical person to have lived.
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:59 am ... feel His essence in the Universe, He is there, with us, ...
I believe it is an all prevading essence. Om. :candle: :buddha1:
That is not Theravada. But welcome, welcome, come in, have a cup of tea.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by Mahabrahma »

Itivuttaka
112 Loka Sutta

The World
The Buddha explains who the Tathāgata (The Buddha) is and the qualities of the Buddha.

This discourse was taught by the Blessed One, taught by the Arahant, the fully enlightened Supreme Buddha. This is as I heard,

“Monks, the world has been fully understood by the Tathāgata; the Tathāgata is detached from the world. Monks, the origin of the world has been fully understood by the Tathāgata; the origin of the world has been eradicated by the Tathāgata. Monks, the cessation of the world has been fully understood by the Tathāgata; the cessation of the world has been realized by the Tathāgata. Monks, the way leading to the cessation of the world has been fully understood by the Tathāgata; the way leading to the cessation of the world has been developed by the Tathāgata.

Monks, in this world with its devās, Māras, and Brahmas, with its recluses and Brāhmin, in this whole generation with its devās and humans, whatever is seen, heard, smelled, tasted, touched, cognized, attained, sought, and reflected upon by the mind, is fully understood by the Tathāgata. Therefore, he is called the Tathāgata.

Monks, during the time period from the night when the Tathāgata awakens to unsurpassed full enlightenment until the night when he passes away into the Nibbāna-element with no residue left, whatever he speaks, utters, and explains is just so and not otherwise. Therefore, he is called the Tathāgata.

Monks, whatever way the Tathāgata speaks, that is exactly the way the Tathāgata acts. Whatever way the Tathāgata acts, that is exactly the way the Tathāgata speaks. In this way, the Tathāgata acts as he speaks and speaks as he acts. Therefore, he is called the Tathāgata.

Monks, in this world with its devās, Māras, and Brahmas, with its recluses and Brāhmin, in this whole generation with its devās and humans, the Tathāgata is the conqueror of all, unvanquished, the one who realized everything, the one who took everything under his control. Therefore, he is called the Tathāgata.”

This is the meaning of what the Blessed One said. So, with regard to this, it was said:

Having realized the whole world, and its true nature, the Tathāgata is detached from the world and has abandoned desire for it.

The Blessed One is the all-conquering Wise Sage, freed from every bond. The Buddha has reached that perfect peace, Nibbāna, which is free from fear.

The Buddha is freed from all taints, and freed from all suffering. With doubts destroyed, he has destroyed all Kamma and is liberated by the destruction of unwholesomeness.

The Enlightened one, the Blessed One, the unsurpassed lion-king, bringing happiness to the world of gods and humans, turns the Noble Wheel of Dhamma.

Wise gods and humans have gone for refuge to the Buddha and, on meeting him, they pay homage to the greatest one, the all-seeing hero.

The Blessed One is perfectly tamed: of those who tame, he is the best. The Blessed One is perfectly calm: of those who calm others, he is the seer. The Blessed One is free from suffering: of those who free others, he is the foremost. The Blessed One crossed over saṁsāra: of those who help others to cross, he is the chief.

Thus, gods and humans pay homage to the greatest one, to the all-seeing hero saying, “In the world together with its gods, there is no one equalling you. You are the unique, supreme teacher.”

This, too, is the meaning of what was said by the Blessed One. This is exactly as I heard.
-112 Loka Sutta.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by Mahabrahma »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:05 am
Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:59 am ... feel His essence in the Universe, He is there, with us, ...
I believe it is an all prevading essence. Om. :candle: :buddha1:
That is not Theravada. But welcome, welcome, come in, have a cup of tea.
You don't believe the Dhamma is an all pevading Truth that is indestructible?
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:12 am... feel His essence in the Universe, He is there, with us, ... I believe it is an all prevading essence. Om.
I would be very interested to see any suttas where this is said.
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by Mahabrahma »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:18 am
Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:12 am... feel His essence in the Universe, He is there, with us, ... I believe it is an all prevading essence. Om.
I would be very interested to see any suttas where this is said.
Well I hope you don't truly doubt that the Metta of the Buddha and the Dhamma, and even the Sangha is all prevading. One can even take refuge in the Three Jewels alone in a cave. How is this so? Because that Love is always accessible.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by Mahabrahma »

The only Sutta I could find on the subject of All-Pervasiveness was this. Perhaps you could help me understand it.
points of controversy

21.6. Of All-Pervading Power
Controverted Point: That the Buddhas persist in all directions.

Theravādin: Do you., mean that they persist in the eastern quarter? You deny. Then you contradict yourself. You assent. Then I ask, How is this Eastern Buddha named? What is his family? his clan? what the names of his parents? or of his pair of elect disciples? or of his body-servant? What sort of raiment or bowl does he bear? and in what village, town, city, kingdom, or country?

Or does a Buddha persist in the southern… western… northern quarter? or in the nadir? or in the zenith? Of any such an one I ask you the same questions… . Or does he persist in the realm of the four great Kings? or in the heaven of the Three-and-Thirty? or in that of the Yama or the Tusita devas? or in that of the devas who rejoice in creating, or of those who exploit the creations of others? or in the Brahma-world? If you assent, I ask you further as before… .
-21.6. Of All-Pervading Power.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by Mahabrahma »

Here is a good one for you:
....

Furthermore, monks, a noble disciple abandons unwhole—some bodily factors and develops wholesome bodily factors; he abandons unwholesome verbal and mental factors [272a] and develops wholesome verbal and mental factors:

With a mind imbued with benevolence (byams pa, Skt. maitrī), free from enmity, unsurpassed, free from ill will, vast, all—pervasive, immeasurable, well-developed, he dwells pervading one direction, and likewise the second, likewise the third, likewise the fourth direction, the quarters above and below, he dwells pervading the whole world with a mind imbued with benevolence, free from enmity, unsurpassed, free from ill will, vast, all—pervasive, immeasurable, well-developed.

....
-Upāyikā 4.081: Discourse on Accumulated Actions.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by Coëmgenu »

Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:37 am The only Sutta I could find on the subject of All-Pervasiveness was this. Perhaps you could help me understand it.
points of controversy

21.6. Of All-Pervading Power
Controverted Point: That the Buddhas persist in all directions.

Theravādin: Do you., mean that they persist in the eastern quarter? You deny. Then you contradict yourself. You assent. Then I ask, How is this Eastern Buddha named? What is his family? his clan? what the names of his parents? or of his pair of elect disciples? or of his body-servant? What sort of raiment or bowl does he bear? and in what village, town, city, kingdom, or country?

Or does a Buddha persist in the southern… western… northern quarter? or in the nadir? or in the zenith? Of any such an one I ask you the same questions… . Or does he persist in the realm of the four great Kings? or in the heaven of the Three-and-Thirty? or in that of the Yama or the Tusita devas? or in that of the devas who rejoice in creating, or of those who exploit the creations of others? or in the Brahma-world? If you assent, I ask you further as before… .
-21.6. Of All-Pervading Power.
This is a debate between the Theravādins and maybe the Andhakas. The opponent of the Theravādin says that there are many Buddhas. The Theravādin says that the east, south, west, north, nadir, and zenith must have a Buddha. The implication is that it is absurd for there to be Buddhas in those directions. The Theravādin asks the maybe-Andhaka to name these Buddhas and provide details of their lives, their families, their clans, etc., possibly alluding to the mysterious histories and origins of the allegedly-ancient and apocryphal foreign Buddhas of the Mahāyāna and perhaps its Mahāsāṃghika-derived antecedents and why one should not believe in them.

The Andhaka response is not given, but we can speculate that they might have said that Akṣobhya was of the east, that Ratnasaṃbhava was of the south, that Amitāyur was of the west, that Amoghasiddhi was of the north, that Paramālokaśrī was of the nadir, that Śākyamuni was of the centre, and that Vairocana was of the zenith, but that is speculating based on post-Andhaka buddhology.

The Theravādin stance as outlined in that section of Kathāvatthu is that the Buddhas do not persist in all directions. The Theravādin stance is that there is only one Buddha at a time. According to Theravādin orthodoxy for instance, it is impossible for Śākyamuni and Prabhūtaratna-Vairocana to co-exist and share one bodhimaṇḍa in the ratnastūpa as they do in the Lotus Sūtra.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:21 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by confusedlayman »

it is induvidual perspective must be taken.. for me he is no 1 and and his disciples no 2 and so on...

my list also has Dalai Lama in top spot but I dont have anyone outside buddhist monks as influential in my list ..

It is laughable that newton is placed above buddha in that list... newton will be considered as fool in India if he debates with Indian ascetics with jhana
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by SarathW »

Is there any master of other religion who talk against total discrimination?
The teaching of Anatta and Nibbana is so unique we still have not explored it in full.
Total world peace and equality can be only attained by following Buddha's path in my opinion.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Is Buddha the fifth most influential man in history?

Post by Mahabrahma »

There will always be new Spiritual things to explore, new states of meditation to experience, new ways to grow, and even new things to learn, even for a Buddha. Even for a God. This is the point of life. Buddha is Life.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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