Adolf Hitler

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DooDoot
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Re: Adolf Hitler

Post by DooDoot »

Dhammanando wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:34 am ...
Thank you. The above matters were already addressed, some being core doctrine (such as cleansing) and others being probably part of the prevailing world politic (namely, external expansion, which Hitler admitted was not nationalism). Others sound like propaganda. The bottom line, however, is i think you have clearly pointed out how fascism is similar to theocracy. Of greater importance, it seems you have strayed from "dharma" and instead of focusing on the dharmic quality of "upholding society" you appear to have entered into identitarianism. In other words, a certain ethic group, due its incredible organized cronyism, aka ethic oligarchy, such as small Chinese groups dominating SE Aaian economies, may represent a parasitic threat to the society. You appear to have ignored this & overlooked the core meaning of dharma.
The root of the word dharma is "dhri", which means "to support, hold, or bear".
Also, the idea of "democracy" in your quote appears non-sequitur because democracy failed in the 1920s in Germany, even more, it was a novel thing in Europe and, most importantly, is not something inherently Buddhist or dhammic. Even the founders of the USA Republic were acutely aware of the short-comings of democracy. To say fascism is wrong because it is not democratic is not any argument. Its like saying if 51% of bhikkhus vote having parties with ladies is OK then Vinaya is wrong. Kind regards :smile:
Last edited by DooDoot on Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:02 am, edited 10 times in total.
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Dan74
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Re: Adolf Hitler

Post by Dan74 »

Dhammanando wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:34 am
DooDoot wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:44 am I do recall you made a comment on the Welfare of A Nation, somewhere, and compared it to a modern politic. :smile:
No doubt I have, but without ever identifying fascism or Nazism as viable bases for that welfare.

When I speak of fascism as un-dhammic and anti-dhammic what I'm referring to is fascism as it was defined by Robert Paxton. His definition was actually quoted in the Wiki entry that you linked to earlier:
... a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.
The part in bold is the chief problem, the notion of state violence as redemptive, as opposed to its being occasionally a necessary evil; the gratuitous belief in the justice of expanding one's territory (Hitler's obsession with Lebensraum, Mussolini's greed to own North Africa); the "cleansing" of one's nation by exterminating this or that despised ethnic or sexual minority group, along with all one's political opponents; and the abandonment of constitutionality and the rule of law and their replacement by essentially capricious and despotic acts of state, carried out "without ethical or legal restraint".
That seems to me to be a good summary, although some variants were milder and didn't go after minorities so much or for territorial expansion (Austria).
_/|\_
48vows
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Re: Adolf Hitler

Post by 48vows »

a brief glace that the early sutras will show that democracy is really adharma
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Dhammanando
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Re: Adolf Hitler

Post by Dhammanando »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:52 am To say fascism is wrong because it is not democratic is not any argument.
But I didn't make any such argument. I don't fetishize democracy and the "suspension of democratic liberties" in Paxton's definition of fascism is not among the features that I singled out as adhammic.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Adolf Hitler

Post by Ceisiwr »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:53 am
Oh dear.. what an opening contradictory statement.
There was no contradiction in that statement.
Unsubstantiated nonsense. Regardless, my posts were about the philosophy rather than attempts at its practise. Your ideas are the same as saying Buddhism does not teach jhana and Nibbana because most Buddhists personally cannot reach these states
People have reached jhāna and nibbāna. Every time Fascism has been tried it failed to do what it claimed it could do. All you are doing here is making the Fascist equivalent of the commie argument, "that wasn't real socialism". Congrats on joining that gang.
Irrelevant to the point that fascism resembles dhamma.
But it is relevant. The relationship between employer and employee in the DN can be found in more than one political ideology or system. To say then that because in theory Fascism can be made to match it, therefore Fascism is the closest political ideology to the suttas is poor reasoning (not surprised here). Its too broad. Its like saying Hitler and Buddha are similar because they both drank water.
No. The working classes struggled to achieve a welfare state. In fact, it was mostly after WW2 when the welfare state came into existence. It is whatever you write that is hollow.
The welfare state began before WW2 and accelerated after. It came about through a mix of worker lead action and policies from the top down. We got to where we are without Fascism, and Fascism itself gave worse outcomes for the workers.
Enough. Back on ignore.
Hmm when someone else said they were putting people on their ignore list you said this:

"Sounds like aversion & mental bondage"

https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.p ... on#p598029

:)

Anyway, I trust I shan't be bothered by you again. Tata :hello:
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understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
TRobinson465
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Re: Adolf Hitler

Post by TRobinson465 »

The fact that Hitler appropriated some Indian/Buddhist terminology into his wacko racial ideology does not mean he was inspired by Buddhism. You could relate some of his ideas to Buddhism if you tried hard enough but thats true with anything and is probably more a matter of coincidence than evidence that Hitler was actually inspired directly by Buddhist ideas. You can make some kind of tangential relation of Buddhism to anything- Marxism, Capitalism, pro-capital punishment/anti-capital punishment etc if you tried hard enuff.

Furthermore, it is only uncomfortable to note even coincidental similarities of anything to Hitler simply because he was deemed the most evil man to exist by the victors of WWII, and that he became the default ad hominem for people too pathetic to come up with legitimate arguments for/against things and because stupid ppl will believe it and automatically give something a negative connation by associating them with Hitler. Dont like Barack Obama-Hitler, dont like Donald Trump-Hitler, We need to invade Ukraine- Because Nazis, CCP doesnt like the Dalai Lama-Hitler (according to the CCP), Universal healthcare-Hitler, climate change-Hitler, climate change deniers- Hitler, Gun control-Hitler, That guy I dont like but don't have a tangible argument against-Hitler, large gathering of people-Nazi rally, small gathering of people-Hitler, vegetarianism-Hitler, against vegetarianism-Hitler, wrong view-Hitler, slightly different wrong view-also Hitler.

Realistically Stalin was probably around as evil as Hitler but Hitler creates a sense of dread in people only because he was so greedy he decided to attack other countries and lose. If he simply left other countries alone or if it was simply the opposite, the USSR attacking Western Europe and the Western democracies allying with Nazi Germany against the USSR in an alliance of convenience, Stalin would have went down as the most evil man on earth and it'd be the default ad hominem attack to liken someone to Stalin, with Hitler going down as an asterisk evil like Stalin is today.
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Bundokji
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Re: Adolf Hitler

Post by Bundokji »

Hitler resurfaced again in the news, which turned into a spat between Sergey Lavrov and Israeli leadership. What has not changed is the misuse of suffering to achieve political gains. I fail to see the wisdom in the common belief that we can learn from history. The Buddha's teachings have little to do with history and more to do with letting go.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Kusala
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Re: Adolf Hitler

Post by Kusala »

Bundokji wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:48 am Hitler resurfaced again in the news, which turned into a spat between Sergey Lavrov and Israeli leadership. What has not changed is the misuse of suffering to achieve political gains. I fail to see the wisdom in the common belief that we can learn from history. The Buddha's teachings have little to do with history and more to do with letting go.
I don't remember the exact sutta, but I recall the Buddha saying something like the world has a problem with him, but he doesn't have a problem with the world...

Perfect example:


Image

over at Sujato's Blog, a gentleman named "Lars"...SJWs are coming after the Buddha now...

Lars: "...If the 32 marks were a harmless myth, or better yet a myth that had positive values to impart I could agree with this, but with the mark of “blue eyes” and “light golden skin” it really cant be interpreted as anything else but racist.

The logic is pretty clear, good kamma = blue eyes light skin, therefore dark eyes, dark skin must equal….. its a bad myth any way you look at it. Peace,

Lars. "


Lars: "...it doesn’t matter what ethnicity the 32 marks refer to, so long as a any ethnicity is referred to it implies that every other ethnicity is inferior.

As I mentioned in a post several months back about kamma, some of the implications of kamma in the suttas really trouble me. it seems like a form of spiritual eugenics.

Lars."


https://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/04/06 ... -32-marks/
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