Coronavirus (Wellness, Diet & Fitness)

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SarathW
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Re: Coronavirus?

Post by SarathW »

SarathW wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:18 am
SarathW wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:24 am It appears that there are successful lab testing has done to find a drug for Coronavirus.
They are testing the existing Malaria drug and the Aids drug and the combination of both drugs.
I lost the link to the supporting video.
More people are now talking about this cure.
But there is another school strongly reject these claims. :shrug:
My only concern is that Mr. Turmp also talking about this.
So I am not sure how credible these claims.

There is news of a person's death, the danger of self-administering those drugs.

The latest trial seems to be the injecting of plasma from a recovered patient.

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chownah
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Re: Coronavirus?

Post by chownah »

I think that the concept of herd immunity just means that if there is a population (herd) of animals which is resistant to a disease then we say that there is herd immunity. A population of animals which is resistant to a disease comes about by different factors. One factor is that in the past the herd has been exposed to a disease and it has killed all of the herd members whose bodies are not capable of making antibodies to that disease and so they die.....and if they die young enough they don't reproduce and their genes are purged from the herd....once those individuals no longer reproduce then the herd is left with all individuals able to produce antibodies and then the herd is immune.

So....from this perspective a herd becomes immune through deaths....if we want this kind of immunity (assuming that it is possible ....which it might not be) then we should let the virus go rampant and kill as many people as possible and we should especially expose children so that they will die before they reproduce. (ouch)
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SarathW
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Re: Coronavirus?

Post by SarathW »

So....from this perspective a herd becomes immune through deaths....if we want this kind of immunity (assuming that it is possible ....which it might not be) then we should let the virus go rampant and kill as many people as possible and we should especially expose children so that they will die before they reproduce. (ouch)
Agree.
This does not seem like a human solution.
It allows the nature to take its own course.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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No_Mind
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Re: Coronavirus?

Post by No_Mind »

Caodemarte wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:16 pm Herd immunity does not protect against infection. If you have a herd of mostly inoculated cows and one or two uninoculated cows then the uninoculated cows are unlikely to run into an infectious cow and catch the virus. You have broken the chain of transmission. If the one or two cows do get infected and die, then you have lost only one or two cows in your herd. You can calculate the cost of a specific vaccine against the profit loss of x number of cows to make a pretty good risk/reward ratio calculation.

It does nor work well with people because they move around. Tragically some parents misunderstood how this works recently. They refused to inoculate their kids believing that since most other children were, their kids would benefit from “herd immunity.” Almost inevitably, these kids caught the measles, which is a very dangerous disease, and helped spark an epidemic across the US.

In this case, there is no vaccine against the corona virus. Although most of the infected recover as in most diseases, there is no natural resistance to infection so herd immunity does not really apply. It does not apply to malaria which is caused by a parasite spread by mosquitoes, dengue fever, Ebola, etc. It does not apply to diseases that cannot be vaccinated against. However, we can break the transmission chain by isolation and quarantine. Eventually, a vaccine will be developed.
What the doctors mean by herd immunity (as far as I understood) -

An epidemic can only happen when a virus (usually flu) mutates from being able to live inside an animal to being able to live inside a human. But as more and more people get infected, the virus runs out of hosts and becomes just another pathogen.

Most people will get affected by coronavirus but not know.

If a girl aged 18 gets coronavirus, she most likely will not know. She will pass the antibodies to her child when she conceives at 23. Ultimately in about a few decades most people will be either immune to coronavirus due to having it and not knowing or since their mother passed it on to them.

Let us look at it by numbers - if this episode happened without modern medical care - 4-6 billion people people would have had the virus. Maybe a billion or two died. Leaving over five billion healthy humans to continue and never suffer from another Covid-19 epidemic.

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Caodemarte
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Re: Coronavirus?

Post by Caodemarte »

No_Mind wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:46 am What the doctors mean by herd immunity (as far as I understood) ....
This is not really herd immunity as it is commonly used. Please refer to my earlier post.

There is not yet evidence that those infected who do fight it off will not be reinfected by the same virus although that is a good guess. In any case, a new strain (like the flu) could almost certainly infect.

Recurrent fatal epidemics are a feature of human and animal history. Look at tuberculosis. It Is better to say that viruses that do not immediately kill all their hosts have a better chance of reproducing over time. That mutation will probably win the evolution sweepstakes. So the common cold may have evolved out of a killer disease over millennia. Ebola was not a successful virus because the method of transmission in humans was so difficult and it killed the human host too quickly. The transmission chain could be broken. The Black Death was defeated in Europe after nearly collapsing European civilization because it killed its hosts, and broke the transmission chain. We still have annual cases in Navaho land in the US (wild animal fleas to human transmission).

The coronavirus apparently lived in bats or other animal hosts before without quickly killing the host. It has not evolved to do so in humans. It appears not to have mutated to live in humans, but rather was presumably spread by bats butchered in a Wuhan wet market (or rather by the spread of fluids from the bats onto various surfaces. By the way, wild bats have a huge variety of viruses that do not kill them, but can spread to humans. They will kill the new hosts because neither have evolved together over millennia. In this case,

Since there is no vaccine or direct cure at the moment, the weapons we have are isolation and good sanitation. They are crude, but effective.

Chloroquine, most commonly used to weaken malaria parasites, has very dangerous effects and has no proven effect on this virus. It, like other drugs, is being studied because of anecdotal stories. Frankly, it is unlikely that we will randomly stumble on an existing drug that works on this. You might as well do controlled studies, more or less at random,but don’t get excited. It should never be taken for any purpose without supervision. As a former user, I can tell you do not mess around with this or any other powerful drug without competent medical supervision.

Most likely, once we understand the virus structure better we can come up with a new vaccine and treatment. We are making progress on that because it belongs to a well studied virus family.
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Tangent-Man
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Daily Chanting of Ratana Sutta for Covid-19 Virus

Post by Tangent-Man »

Just to let people know there are some Sri-Lankan Monks chanting Ratan Sutta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratana_Sutta live every day to help with the Covid-19 Virus.

Image

I think anyone can join in :-)

You can find details of the Pirith here: https://www.mahamevnawa.ca/downloads.html

I beleive it is a very powerfull pirith if we can all chant it together and take on it's essemce who knows what might happen :-)

_/|\_

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Tangent-Man
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Tangent-Man »

Lol I forgot to post the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPdOtAiorHA

:candle: :candle: :candle:
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

Coronavirus: How Japan keeps COVID-19 under control
Despite its proximity to China, Japan hasn't seen the massive outbreak of the coronavirus that has shut down much of Europe and North America. What are the Japanese doing differently to help slow the spread?
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-how-j ... a-52907069

A Coronavirus Explosion Was Expected in Japan. Where Is It?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... here-is-it


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Tangent-Man
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Tangent-Man »

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

China Seals Borders to Most Foreigners Starting Saturday

In recent days, China had imposed greater restrictions on foreigners entering the country, including 14-day quarantines on people arriving from countries hit hard by the pandemic. The virus, which originated in the city of Wuhan, has infected a reported 82,000 people in China and killed nearly 3,300 there. A massive lockdown on people in the worst-affected areas has gradually brought the spread of the virus under control, and some cities have allowed workers to return to their jobs.

China had already been drastically scaling back the number of foreigners who could come to the country. Foreign airlines with routes to the country are only being permitted a few flights a week.

According to China’s National Health Commission, there were 67 new confirmed cases of COVID-19 on the Chinese mainland Wednesday, all of them imported from overseas, the Xinhua News Agency reported. There were an additional 58 suspected cases, all of which were also from abroad.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... g-saturday
The U.S. Now Leads the World in Confirmed Coronavirus Cases
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/heal ... cases.html

USA now has more coronavirus cases than either China or Italy
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/usa-now ... italy.html

U.S. Coronavirus Cases Surpass Those of China, Italy
Confirmed infections top 82,000 across country, exceeding all other national totals
https://www.wsj.com/articles/government ... 1585218656

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Coronavirus?

Post by Pseudobabble »

Caodemarte wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:11 pm There is not yet evidence that those infected who do fight it off will not be reinfected by the same virus although that is a good guess.
This is not true. The only way anyone recovers from any virus is by developing antibodies, which ensure they cannot be reinfected with the same virus. If people did not produce antibodies against SARS-COV-2, nobody would recover from it, let alone be available for reinfection.

Antibodies do not provide immunity against mutations however, and since SARS-COV-2 is an RNA virus, it has a much higher mutation rate than DNA virii, which makes it likely that this will become a seasonal virus, like "normal" influenza.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


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SarathW
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by SarathW »

Very interesting discussion with Mr.Bill Gates.
When the deceases are above are positive number it increases exponentially to a higher number.
When the deceases are below one or decimal number exponentially it reaches Zero.
He uses this argument to explain how China got it under control and why the decease may not crop up again.
I quite did not get his point.
How do you get a patient 0.4 ?
Did you get it?

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Tangent-Man
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Re: Coronavirus?

Post by Tangent-Man »

To my mind it seems unlikely that the Wuhan wet market was the source of the outbreak. Yes there was a cluster of patients that had a links to the market, all presenting with pneumonia of unknown cause - having ruled out other common pathogens perhaps the medical teams became concerned / intrigued - hoping to find something interesting they investigated further and discovered covid-19 for the first time. However, the first confirmed covid-19 patient apparently had no links to the wet market and presented on the 1st of December. The main cluster of cases from the wet market presented about 2 weeks later (between Dec 15 to the beginning of January).

Also there are anecdotal reports of atypical pneumonia presentation at Hospitals in at least one other country also. There is not enough data to ascertain the time / location of patient zero.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01 ... g-globally

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 5/fulltext
chownah
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Re: Coronavirus?

Post by chownah »

Pseudobabble wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:19 am
Caodemarte wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:11 pm There is not yet evidence that those infected who do fight it off will not be reinfected by the same virus although that is a good guess.
This is not true. The only way anyone recovers from any virus is by developing antibodies, which ensure they cannot be reinfected with the same virus. If people did not produce antibodies against SARS-COV-2, nobody would recover from it, let alone be available for reinfection.

Antibodies do not provide immunity against mutations however, and since SARS-COV-2 is an RNA virus, it has a much higher mutation rate than DNA virii, which makes it likely that this will become a seasonal virus, like "normal" influenza.
I'm no expert on this stuff but here is an article which disagrees with what you are saying:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandso ... oronavirus
"We don't know very much," says Matt Frieman, a coronavirus researcher at the University of Maryland School of Medicine in Baltimore. "I think there's a very likely scenario where the virus comes through this year, and everyone gets some level of immunity to it, and if it comes back again, we will be protected from it — either completely or if you do get reinfected later, a year from now, then you have much less disease."

"That is the hope," he adds. "But there is no way to know that."

Researchers do know that reinfection is an issue with the four seasonal coronaviruses that cause about 10 to 30% of common colds. These coronaviruses seem to be able to sicken people again and again, even though people have been exposed to them since childhood.

"Almost everybody walking around, if you were to test their blood right now, they would have some levels of antibody to the four different coronaviruses that are known," says Ann Falsey of the University of Rochester Medical Center.

After infection with one of these viruses, she says, antibodies are produced but then the levels slowly decline and people become susceptible again.

"Most respiratory viruses only give you a period of relative protection. I'm talking about a year or two. That's what we know about the seasonal coronaviruses," says Falsey.
The article is much longer and talks about mutation rates etc. but it seems to say that mutation rate is not the only reason for becoming reinfected and that it has to do with production and viability of antibodies and how this changes over time.

Again, I'm no expert with this stuff.
chownah
Caodemarte
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Re: Coronavirus?

Post by Caodemarte »

Pseudobabble wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:19 am
Caodemarte wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:11 pm There is not yet evidence that those infected who do fight it off will not be reinfected by the same virus although that is a good guess.
This is not true. The only way anyone recovers from any virus is by developing antibodies, which ensure they cannot be reinfected with the same virus. If people did not produce antibodies against SARS-COV-2, nobody would recover from it, let alone be available for reinfection....
I rely on Dr. Fauci of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (US). Are specific antibodies produced? Probably, but we have no evidence yet. Have we identified them in this case? Not yet at this second, but almost certainly will. Do specific antibodies against a specific strain of viruses, no matter how produced, provide immunity against reinfection? Not in all cases. Many provide immunity against that specific strain (until that strain changes) for years, weeks, a few days, or some hours. Some provide none and reinfection by the same strain after the existing virus infection is wiped out is common for them. Will the presumed antibodies to this virus confer immunity for life, weeks, months, days, hours or not at all? We don't know. We do not have evidence yet.

This matches what every other qualified specialist would say. However, the good doctor and all other specialists are also confident that evidence will be developed. Until then, we are just making guesses. A guess may be a good guess, as I believe this will be, but it is a guess.

Many viruses are overwhelmed by general antibodies, not specific antibody production. The body does not have to find a specific, tailored antibody in all cases. Often the greater damage is done by secondary infections (for which the body already has an antibody reaction) because of the weakening of the immune system which has shifted resources into attacking the unknown virus.

This virus does not kill most of its victims and thus end the contagion. It damages the lungs of more. Even more escape with little to no damage or even symptoms. Very good, but this means more contagion vectors.
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