Coronavirus (Wellness, Diet & Fitness)

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thepea
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by thepea »

chownah wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:22 pm
thepea wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:26 pm It’s an impossibility for the homemade mask to stop the microscopic virus.
When someone coughs or sneezes the vast bulk of the virus is contained in water droplets which are stopped to one extent or another by even the most rudimentary mask. Even the worst masks can reduce the distance that the spray of water droplets which is emitted in a cough or sneeze can travel....also even the worst masks can capture some of the water droplets which contain the virus on/in the fabric of the mask which reduces the number of virus particles which enter the air.

So, even rudimentary masks can reduce the amount of virus emitted into the air and reduce the distance that the virus travels. So, even rudimentary masks can reduce the spread of the virus.
chownah
The virus is airborne in case you haven’t realized.
A simple breath can put virus into the air and it can stay in air for 3 hrs. According to last nights coverage on CNN.
The airborne particles go right through the mask due to its microscopic nature and because vast majority feel somewhat safe and protected they go out when symptomatic. My hand or sleeve stops more than a mask, but neither stop the airborne particles.
Learn to live with virus...
Last edited by retrofuturist on Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Off-topic content removed
chownah
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by chownah »

thepea wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:03 pm
chownah wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:22 pm
thepea wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:26 pm It’s an impossibility for the homemade mask to stop the microscopic virus.
When someone coughs or sneezes the vast bulk of the virus is contained in water droplets which are stopped to one extent or another by even the most rudimentary mask. Even the worst masks can reduce the distance that the spray of water droplets which is emitted in a cough or sneeze can travel....also even the worst masks can capture some of the water droplets which contain the virus on/in the fabric of the mask which reduces the number of virus particles which enter the air.

So, even rudimentary masks can reduce the amount of virus emitted into the air and reduce the distance that the virus travels. So, even rudimentary masks can reduce the spread of the virus.
chownah
The virus is airborne in case you haven’t realized.
A simple breath can put virus into the air and it can stay in air for 3 hrs. According to last nights coverage on CNN.
The airborne particles go right through the mask due to its microscopic nature and because vast majority feel somewhat safe and protected they go out when symptomatic. My hand or sleeve stops more than a mask, but neither stop the airborne particles.
Learn to live with virus...
You seem to be thinking that "airborne" means individual virus particles floating in the air but I think that you are mistaken. This article (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293495/) talks about what this means. An excerpt which directly deals with this:
Another classification is presented by Judson and Munster (2019), which is often referred to as the term of ‘airborne transmission’ to describe the disease spread by small droplet aerosols and droplet nuclei, while the term ‘droplet transmission’ to describe infection by large droplet aerosols. The term ‘airborne transmission’ defined by Morawska (2006) is quite similar to the same apprehended by Judson and Munster (2019)
Please note that the article does not define "aerosols" as being individual virus particles:
There have been numerous disagreements on the average particle size of droplets and aerosols (Shiu et al., 2019). The World Health Organization (WHO) and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) postulate that the particles of more than 5 μm as droplets, and those less than 5 μm as aerosols or droplet nuclei (Siegel et al., 2007; WHO, 2014). Conversely, there have been some other postulations, indicating that aerodynamic diameter of 20 μm or 10 μm or less should be reckoned to be aerosols, based on their ability to linger in the air for a prolonged period, and the reachability to the respirable fraction of the lung (alveolar region) (Gralton et al., 2011; Nicas et al., 2005; Tellier, 2009). Small aerosols are more susceptible to be inhaled deep into the lung, which causes infection in the alveolar tissues of the lower respiratory tract, while large droplets are trapped in the upper airways (Thomas, 2013). For easy apprehension, aerosols can be defined as suspensions of solid or liquid particles in the air, which can be generated by either natural or anthropogenic phenomena (Judson and Munster, 2019; Tellier, 2009).
Please not the reddened portion where it concisely defines droplets and aerosols as being sold or liquid particles.....individual virus particles are not considered to be solid or liquid in that they are too small to exhibit characteristics which would be termed "solid" or "liquid".....hence, the term "aerosol" is not used in this study to indicate individual virus particles.

It could be that individual virus particles do float in the air and spread the disease but I did not read the entire article so if it talks about individual virus particles floating in the air I did not see it. If you can find a scholarly article which talks about individual virus particles floating in the air spreading the disease I would like to see it.

At any rate, it does seem from this article that droplets and aerosols describe a spectrum of solid and droplet sizes and that these are what are considered to be the usual path for spread of the virus (if you can find something else I"d like to see it) and it is easily understood that since large droplets can break up into aerosols then even if a mask just stops some large droplets and/or decreases the distance that large droplets travel then those actions alone will help to combat spread of the virus. Of course better the mask is both in the fineness of the fabric used and the fit of the mask the better it will be at stoping and/or decreasing the distance the droplets and aerosols travel which are a smaller size. But just about any mask will help to some degree.

You seem to have many concerns but you have not researched whether your concerns are just your ideas or the way the world actually works.
chownah
Caodemarte
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Caodemarte »

Most airborne viruses adhere to microscopic or larger water or dust motes. If what it is adhering to is small enough the virus can linger in the air for an indefinite time, minutes, hours, days or longer. This is complicated by the fact that the dust mote or droplet can fall down and then be stirred up again into the atmosphere. See the behavior of the tuberculosis viruses for good examples of this kind of persistence.
santa100
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by santa100 »

You're missing the point. We don't care about the health of young people catching Covid, for the odds are pretty good that they'll recover. Problem is, whether Covid patients are young or old, they'll still flood the hospitals, hence draining human and financial resources from being directed at those most needed. Same deal with wearing masks, we don't care about the young people's health when they're not wearing it for they'll likely survive, but problem is, if they don't wear masks, and since they're young, they can become asymptomatic carriers who WILL spread Covid to those around them who are more vulnerable, like old folks, folks with preexisting conditions, etc... hence even more patients will flood the hospitals, and the miserable viscious cycle repeats all over again.
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cappuccino
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by cappuccino »

santa100 wrote: the miserable vicious cycle repeats all over again.
yes that's Samsara
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DooDoot
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by DooDoot »

santa100 wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:53 pm You're missing the point....
Suddenly everyone is an expert. We know the USA has false attributed many deaths to Covid. It was the official policy.
At a briefing on Tuesday, Dr. Deborah Birx, the coordinator of the White House coronavirus task force, said that the federal government will count the deaths of people who died with coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, despite other countries not doing the same.

"There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem — some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death," Dr. Birx said during the briefing. "The intent is...if someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that as a COVID-19 death."

https://live.healthday.com/coronavirus- ... 72483.html
Coronavirus: Japan's mysteriously low virus death rate

At the height of the outbreak in Wuhan in February, when the city's hospitals were overwhelmed and the world put up walls to Chinese travellers, Japan kept borders open.

As the virus spread, it quickly became clear that Covid is a disease that primarily kills the elderly and is massively amplified by crowds or prolonged close contact. Per capita, Japan has more elderly than any other country. Japan's population is also densely packed into huge cities.

Greater Tokyo has a mind-boggling 37 million people and for most of them, the only way to get around is on the city's notoriously packed trains.

Then there is Japan's refusal to heed the advice of the World Health Organization (WHO) to "test, test, test". Even now, total PCR tests stand at just 348,000, or 0.27% of Japan's population.

Nor has Japan had a lockdown on the scale or severity of Europe. In early April, the government ordered a state of emergency. But the stay-at-home request was voluntary. Non-essential businesses were asked to close, but there was no legal penalty for refusing.

Many paragons of Covid strategy, such as New Zealand and Vietnam, used tough measures including closing borders, tight lockdowns, large-scale testing and strict quarantines - but Japan did none of that.

Yet, five months after the first Covid case was reported here, Japan has fewer than 20,000 confirmed cases and fewer than 1,000 deaths. The state of emergency has been lifted, and life is rapidly returning to normal.

A recent report by the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found people with underlying medical conditions such as heart disease, obesity and diabetes are six times more likely to be hospitalised if they get Covid-19 and 12 times more likely to die.

Japan has the lowest rates of coronary heart disease and obesity in the developed world. Still, scientists insist such vital signs do not explain everything. :shrug:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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santa100
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by santa100 »

DooDoot wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:19 am
santa100 wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:53 pm You're missing the point....
Suddenly everyone is an expert. We know the USA has false attributed many deaths to Covid. It was the official policy.
At a briefing on Tuesday, Dr. Deborah Birx, the coordinator of the White House coronavirus task force, said that the federal government will count the deaths of people who died with coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, despite other countries not doing the same.

"There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem — some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death," Dr. Birx said during the briefing. "The intent is...if someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that as a COVID-19 death."

https://live.healthday.com/coronavirus- ... 72483.html
Coronavirus: Japan's mysteriously low virus death rate

At the height of the outbreak in Wuhan in February, when the city's hospitals were overwhelmed and the world put up walls to Chinese travellers, Japan kept borders open.

As the virus spread, it quickly became clear that Covid is a disease that primarily kills the elderly and is massively amplified by crowds or prolonged close contact. Per capita, Japan has more elderly than any other country. Japan's population is also densely packed into huge cities.

Greater Tokyo has a mind-boggling 37 million people and for most of them, the only way to get around is on the city's notoriously packed trains.

Then there is Japan's refusal to heed the advice of the World Health Organization (WHO) to "test, test, test". Even now, total PCR tests stand at just 348,000, or 0.27% of Japan's population.

Nor has Japan had a lockdown on the scale or severity of Europe. In early April, the government ordered a state of emergency. But the stay-at-home request was voluntary. Non-essential businesses were asked to close, but there was no legal penalty for refusing.

Many paragons of Covid strategy, such as New Zealand and Vietnam, used tough measures including closing borders, tight lockdowns, large-scale testing and strict quarantines - but Japan did none of that.

Yet, five months after the first Covid case was reported here, Japan has fewer than 20,000 confirmed cases and fewer than 1,000 deaths. The state of emergency has been lifted, and life is rapidly returning to normal.

A recent report by the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found people with underlying medical conditions such as heart disease, obesity and diabetes are six times more likely to be hospitalised if they get Covid-19 and 12 times more likely to die.

Japan has the lowest rates of coronary heart disease and obesity in the developed world. Still, scientists insist such vital signs do not explain everything. :shrug:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847
You are missing the point again. If you can provide any direct counter-argument to my post below, please do so:
santa100 wrote:You're missing the point. We don't care about the health of young people catching Covid, for the odds are pretty good that they'll recover. Problem is, whether Covid patients are young or old, they'll still flood the hospitals, hence draining human and financial resources from being directed at those most needed. Same deal with wearing masks, we don't care about the young people's health when they're not wearing it for they'll likely survive, but problem is, if they don't wear masks, and since they're young, they can become asymptomatic carriers who WILL spread Covid to those around them who are more vulnerable, like old folks, folks with preexisting conditions, etc... hence even more patients will flood the hospitals, and the miserable viscious cycle repeats all over again.
Last edited by santa100 on Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

:focus:

That's enough meta-discussion please.

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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DooDoot
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by DooDoot »

santa100 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:59 am If you can provide any direct counter-argument to my post below, please do so:
* Economic costs
* Mental health costs
* Neglect of other diseases cost
santa100 wrote:hence even more patients will flood the hospitals, and the miserable viscious cycle repeats all over again.
Unproven. Non-lockdown countries have not experienced the above.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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santa100
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by santa100 »

DooDoot wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:10 am
santa100 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:59 am If you can provide any direct counter-argument to my post below, please do so:
* Economic costs
* Mental health costs
* Neglect of other diseases cost
santa100 wrote:hence even more patients will flood the hospitals, and the miserable viscious cycle repeats all over again.
Unproven. Non-lockdown countries have not experienced the above.
Thanks for proving my point. If there're even more hidden costs beside my 2 main costs, all the more reason to implement social distancing and wearing mask!
Please provide exact links where those non-lockdown countries do not enforce social distancing and do not wear masks.
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Kim OHara
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Kim OHara »

DooDoot wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:10 am
santa100 wrote:hence even more patients will flood the hospitals, and the miserable viscious cycle repeats all over again.
Unproven. Non-lockdown countries have not experienced the above.
Italy and Spain experienced it in the early days of the pandemic. England followed.

:coffee:
Kim
Caodemarte
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Caodemarte »

Sweden tried a non-lockdown policy (with the exception of nursing homes). As predicted, Sweden suffered and suffers a significantly higher death rate than neighboring Norway. Kentucky and Tennessee offers a similar contrast in the US. The mild stay at home requests in one state kept the rate of infection relatively low, the let it rip policy in the other led to the near collapse of its hospital system and a huge spike in infection and death rates. Both are textbook comparisons of one variable.

Texas, a non-lockdown state which has no comparable neighbors, is now suffering the near collapse of its health system like other states which have refused to issue stay at home requests.

Any public health professional could have predicted these results. And many did.
Last edited by Caodemarte on Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bundokji
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Bundokji »

Caodemarte wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:14 am Sweden tried a non-lockdown policy (with the exception of nursing homes). As predicted, Sweden suffered and suffers a significantly higher death rate than neighboring Norway. Kentucky and Tennessee offers a similar contrast in the US. The mild stay at home requests in one state kept the rate of infection relatively low, the let it rip policy in the other led to the near collapse of its hospital system and a huge spike in infection and death rates. Both are textbook comparisons of one variable.

Texas, a non-lockdown state which has no comparable neighbors, is now suffering the near collapse of its health system like other states which have refused to issue stay at home requests.

Any public health professional could have predicted these results. And many did.
Public health officials have a natural bias to interpret things in terms of health hazards and number of deaths. What eludes most of them though is the general health of the population. There is much more to health than "saving lives". What no one speaks about Sweden is their ability to keep functioning as close to normal as possible during the pandemic.

A short term spike in mortality rate would be compensated for by a fall in the medium term. If we assume that those who died had five more years in average to live, then a five year chart would show the same number of deaths either with Covid or without it. However, the number of deaths due to hysterical measures and lockdown might be higher than average but wont be associated with the label "Covid".
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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DooDoot
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by DooDoot »

Caodemarte wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:14 am Sweden tried a non-lockdown policy (with the exception of nursing homes). As predicted, Sweden suffered and suffers a significantly higher death rate than neighboring Norway.
False comparison. Sweden 87% of deaths over 75yo; mostly in nursing homes; where 20% of admissions pass-away within one month, regardless. Sweden best compared with UK, Germany, etc, rather than Norway. Sweden, not even 6,000 deaths. Cannot be regarded as a pandemic or epidemic.
mikenz66 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:58 pm You mean like making seat belts compulsory, rules about which side of the road to drive on, speed limits, alcohol limits, airbags, anti-lock brakes, and well-engineered roads?
If the science on Covid-19 was settled, there wouldn't be scores of scientists on the internet disputing the mass-media-US-UK-Oz narrative and methodology. Its interesting how 'Buddhists' resort to such fundamentalism rather than engage in research & discussion. Regardless, in 2015, around 57,000,000 people died. Current Corona death toll, which obviously is inflated due to most deaths also relating to pre-existing conditions & old age, is 622,000 or an addition 0.2% added to the annual death toll. In the USA, millions of people have been diagnosed via testing and estimated via non-testing with having the virus. Yet they are alive. In non-lockdown countries, such as Sweded & Japan, the death toll in non-aged-care homes is trifling. My impression is the Western political left is really supporting the Covid-19 narrative because, contrary to Buddhist principles, they believe money to be handed out grows on trees rather than is generated via work. For today, the country of Lebanon is collapsing due to years of banker & government corruption creating massive unserviceable government debt. The Buddha admonished indebtedness & praised work, who said:
There is the case where the son of a good family has wealth earned through his efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of his arm, and piled up through the sweat of his brow, righteous wealth righteously gained. When he thinks, 'I have wealth earned through my efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of my arm, and piled up through the sweat of my brow, righteous wealth righteously gained,'...

And what is the bliss of debtlessness? There is the case where the son of a good family owes no debt, great or small, to anyone at all. When he thinks, 'I owe no debt, great or small, to anyone at all,' he experiences bliss, he experiences joy. This is called the bliss of debtlessness...

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
The nanny state mistaken by many to be Buddhism obviously cannot continue until some imaginary vaccine is found. Mr Fauci working unsuccessfully for 35 years or so on an AIDS vaccine.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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