equanimity for non-mask wearers (personal experience)

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binocular
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by binocular »

Bundokji wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:21 pm
binocular wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:15 pm
Bundokji wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:08 pmI don't think seat belts should be compulsory. In fact, where i live, the vast majority do not fasten their seat belts and they seem to be functioning just fine.
When they collide their car, they don't hit the windshield with their head, but remain securely in their seats?
That would depend on how bad the crash is, but in general, they seem to be willing to take the risk.

I found the following through google:https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/jor ... -accidents
I'm asking you whether the drivers in your country are such capable drivers that they can handle collisions, or that they can subvert the laws of physics --?

When exactly are the drivers in your country "doing just fine" when they don't fasten their seat belts?
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Bundokji
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by Bundokji »

binocular wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:23 pm
Bundokji wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:17 pmNot all, but it is more likely to see those who promote wearing masks appealing to authority.
That's unfortunate, but there aren't many alternatives.

One such alternative is asking others to care about you and your health. But this is demeaning and likely to earn one mockery from others. Even though it is the truth: the whole point of wearing masks is to care about eachother. But the whole point of modern freedom is to be free from the social contract ...
Overly protective parenthood usually results in dysfunctional kids.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

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Bundokji
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by Bundokji »

binocular wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:26 pm
Bundokji wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:21 pm
binocular wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:15 pm
When they collide their car, they don't hit the windshield with their head, but remain securely in their seats?
That would depend on how bad the crash is, but in general, they seem to be willing to take the risk.

I found the following through google:https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/jor ... -accidents
I'm asking you whether the drivers in your country are such capable drivers that they can handle collisions, or that they can subvert the laws of physics --?

When exactly are the drivers in your country "doing just fine" when they don't fasten their seat belts?
Doing just fine in that context is incorporating a certain risk into the system and not being fixated or obsessed about it.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
binocular
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by binocular »

Bundokji wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:31 pmDoing just fine in that context is incorporating a certain risk into the system and not being fixated or obsessed about it.
Do you think that everyone who fastens their seat belt is like this -- fixated or obsessed about it?


And safety distance between vehicles? I take it you're not a fan of that either? In your country, when a collision occurs due to not maintaining safety distance between vehicles, whom do the confident drivers blame? The driver in the front?
I'm trying to establish a pattern here.
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binocular
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by binocular »

Bundokji wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:28 pmOverly protective parenthood usually results in dysfunctional kids.
Being indifferent about others is great as long as others care about you.
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Bundokji
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by Bundokji »

binocular wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:46 pm
Bundokji wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:31 pmDoing just fine in that context is incorporating a certain risk into the system and not being fixated or obsessed about it.
Do you think that everyone who fastens their seat belt is like this -- fixated or obsessed about it?


And safety distance between vehicles? I take it you're not a fan of that either? In your country, when a collision occurs due to not maintaining safety distance between vehicles, whom do the confident drivers blame? The driver in the front?
I'm trying to establish a pattern here.
Your question about seat belts is a non-sequitur. Describing the incorporation of risk as doing just fine does not imply that those who choose to fasten their seat built are doing it out of obsession.

I fail to see the relevance in the rest of your questions.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
Bundokji
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by Bundokji »

binocular wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:47 pm
Bundokji wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:28 pmOverly protective parenthood usually results in dysfunctional kids.
Being indifferent about others is great as long as others care about you.
It does not have to be either indifference or care. This seems to be a false dilemma.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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DooDoot
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by DooDoot »

mikenz66 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:58 pm You mean like making seat belts compulsory, rules about which side of the road to drive on, speed limits, alcohol limits, airbags, anti-lock brakes, and well-engineered roads?
I spent $17.95 on three masks on E-Bay yesterday, in case this madness comes to my region. I suppose the masks are not a big deal. But it does possibly set a bad precedent for questionable conformity on questionable grounds. But compulsory vaccines & immunization certificates is another issue. Did you once write on this forum you are/were part of the military; or am i mistaken?
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Sam Vara
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by Sam Vara »

mikenz66 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:58 pm
Bundokji wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:17 pm Not all, but it is more likely to see those who promote wearing masks appealing to authority. The appeal to authority either takes the form of "scientists say this, or science say that" or supporting governments decisions to make it compulsory.
You mean like making seat belts compulsory, rules about which side of the road to drive on, speed limits, alcohol limits, airbags, anti-lock brakes, and well-engineered roads?

:heart:
Mike
A sound point, but there are a couple of differences. The first is that until recently, the Government in the UK were saying that wearing a mask was not necessary, and citing scientific evidence to that effect. The view (from the WHO, I believe) was that face-covering provided a positive but marginal benefit. This has been coupled with an attempt to re-start the service economy, which has led quite a lot of people in the UK to question whether the government's motivation is due to that marginal benefit, or something else, such as a desire to make people feel safer when out and about. None of these sorts of issues and scepticism surrounded the introduction of seat belts and driving on one side of the road. Nor was there the "wealth" of information, much of it contradictory, available to people via the internet. So perhaps the reluctance is more understandable.

Personally, I will wear a mask because - in 25 hours time - it will be the law to do so when shopping in the UK, and I don't want to be fined. Nor do I want unpleasant interactions with people who object to me not wearing one. This exempts me from taking a view on the science behind it.

In my Thursday night Zoom meeting with a small group of meditators associated with Cittaviveka, one of the members is a retired gentleman who used to be the medical director of the National Health Service. That's quite something, especially given the near-religious status of the NHS in the UK. He has occasionally grumbled about our government's response, but I won't even bother to ask him about his speciality - the science behind it. It wouldn't help, as my hand is already forced by the law. And I probably wouldn't understand it! :embarassed:
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Akashad
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by Akashad »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:51 pm
retrofuturist wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:26 pm I have my written medical exemption from my GP...
Appears very sensationalized & dubious but, if so, we must also develop equanimity towards this hysteria. The news says:
Victoria death toll rises as state rocked by second-worst day of new cases

A woman aged over 100, a woman in her 90s and a woman in her 80s all died, taking the state's death toll to 42 and the national tally to 126.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/coron ... 5fc0df8f09
Is the Victorian Soviet Govt giving people free face masks? If so, where are they purchased from? I am considering joining Antifa for a free face mask & hoodie:
No free masks but their selling masks at Pricelince for $200.criminals.
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retrofuturist
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

OK... despite the earlier request, most of the conversation now has scant regard for the topic of "equanimity for non-mask wearers" so we're off to Hot Topics.

Metta,
Paul. :)
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DooDoot
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by DooDoot »

retrofuturist wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:35 pm OK... despite the earlier request, most of the conversation now has scant regard to the topic of "equanimity for non-mask wearers" so we're off to Hot Topics.
Its difficult because what both challenges & assists equanimity is views (ditthi).

Kids and Masks: https://youtu.be/R7nlGIVr5L8
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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salayatananirodha
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by salayatananirodha »

sounds like when the state forced people to believe in god. there is evidence masks can cause the user more harm. i doubt buddhist equanimity was taught to be used in relation to unproven state directives
if it came out that asymptomatic carriers and/or airborne transmission were an insignificant or a negligible cause of cases then my inclination might change. i'm for people having freedom, but, if i had it my way, people's freedom would end where mine began. my topic however was in part to acknowledge that my response is not ideal, and i think equanimity is suitable for that. perhaps you could tell me why not.
retrofuturist wrote:I have my written medical exemption from my GP, ready for when my state starts that tonight at midnight.

:jedi:

I have also made a "fake" mask, which will do nothing whatsoever to restrict my breathing, based upon its construction materials that I intend to wear when I'm at the shops, so as to avoid triggering COVID Karens and the unpleasantness that comes from that.

Anyway, to the topic, there are valid medical grounds for not wearing a mask, and I'm appreciative that my state recognizes that, at least. Anyone lacking in "equanimity for non-mask wearers" could reflect upon it too.

:anjali:

Metta,
Paul. :)
you're actually covering your nose and mouth though so even if it's a thin mask you might well be collecting some droplets maybe some aerosols. i'd like to know what condition actually makes it where you can't wear a mask, if it's too personal for you fine but i remain skeptical. but like i was trying to say in my original post it's my response that matters... anger is not legitimate in any way, nor fear, even tho they're to be expected.
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salayatananirodha
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by salayatananirodha »

Nicholas Weeks wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:52 pm Wonder what Maskers think about leaving the nose uncovered? Equally dangerous or not so? I would think the latter.
i've read actual research on it, doesn't mean i'm an expert, but normal breathing thru the nose is not much of a risk, but forceful exhalation and sneezing can expel droplets and aerosols several feet. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293495/
(separate, unrelated comment) one thing tho, and i dont want this to tailspin as a political discussion, but it's been the policy of my company now for associates to wear masks and recently for customers too, and i might feel better about appealing to that -- mainly, if i didn't have to come into regular contact with people, i wouldn't care so much. it's having to go to a location everyday to afford to live too that is an issue.
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salayatananirodha
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by salayatananirodha »

Caodemarte wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:15 am Jim Keany, MD, emergency physician, patient safety physician champion, and former chief of staff at Mission Hospital in Orange County, California agrees that there are no medical conditions that would preclude someone from wearing a simple surgical or cloth face mask, because both masks have "no effect on respiratory mechanics." According to Dr. Keany, however, if you are having trouble breathing while wearing a cloth or surgical mask, you may not be wearing it correctly. "If you feel like you're sucking air through the mask, you are wearing the mask too tight," says Dr. Keany. "Simply look for a mask that has some stiffness to it, so that you don't suck it into your mouth [while breathing].
woman at work today showed me pimples or sores that are forming around her mouth she says from wearing the mask. but she wears it incorrectly, she scrunches it up underneath her nose and above her chin to stay on her mouth. if she ever wore the mask correctly then i doubt she would have any issues
(separate, unrelated comment) she and this other dude who i told on were really nice to me and i felt super bad and it was really awkward but i justified it to myself by insisting that this is a health issue and that i'm helping people, like if someone was working without other protective gear or doing something generally that was a hazard, unrelated to illnesses but to safety. i feel more at ease when everyone is wearing their mask and i get nervous when someone takes it off for an extended period of time to eat or whatever. and i acknowledge that this is in a way all independent of covid and that's really why i've reached out. i would like this to be ajahn covid. i want to learn from it and not be a victim of it. still working thru the responses....
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