equanimity for non-mask wearers (personal experience)

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salayatananirodha
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equanimity for non-mask wearers (personal experience)

Post by salayatananirodha »

our state just issued a mandate for everyone to wear a mask in public, but i still see people at the grocery store with no mask on. i feel strong dislike, it's surely making me bad kamma, but it's at least revealing the weakness i already had. i feel like most people who don't wear one are either stupid or they are making a political statement. whatever the case, i wish they would cover up their nasty mouth and nose and stop putting others at risk. what can i do to curb my irritation with these people? i don't think anyone can convince me that the pandemic is a complete hoax, but maybe there are some factoids that could help, things to think about that might make me more tolerant again. but this is not so much a topic about coronavirus as a nagging issue i have in daily life, referring to the pandemic but not completely depending on it. so i hope it won't be merged into a huge thread about corona.

i also have an issue at work with others not wearing the mask in a confined space and it's been weird for me to appeal to authority to try to get them to wear the mask. it's been a thing of anxiety -- people don't like me telling on them, don't want control exerted over their bodies. i would care less if i got it but i don't want to spread it to my household.
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by one_awakening »

Notice the irritation, watch it arise, persist and then subside.

Focus on the irritation, not the person.



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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

You don't know if these people have a medical exemption or not, do you?

If they have one, the last thing they need are greasies from a COVID Karen.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"Why now do you assume 'a being'? Mara, have you grasped a view?" (SN 5.10)

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salayatananirodha
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by salayatananirodha »

retrofuturist wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:11 am Greetings,

You don't know if these people have a medical exemption or not, do you?

If they have one, the last thing they need are greasies from a COVID Karen.

Metta,
Paul. :)
no, i don't know, but it's also implausible that you can't breathe thru a mask.
what is greasies?
if they have a respiratory problem that truly prevents them from wearing a mask, what are they doing in a crowded grocery store
six feet is not enough to prevent contraction of an airborne illness

ventilators aren't comfortable either

on a separate note, it's interesting to note people's conceit about their bodies. some guy before the mandate was not wearing a mask and sneezed loudly, and then he said 'dont worry, i'm not sick.' yet people contract the virus without symptoms and may or may not pass on to others.....
i've also been appreciating being outside in general, doesn't matter what i'm doing, it just feels good to be outside. some observations not all directly related to the topic.
Last edited by salayatananirodha on Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadhamma/
https://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/
http://buddhadust.net/backmatter/indexe ... ta_toc.htm
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
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salayatananirodha
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by salayatananirodha »

one_awakening wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:03 am Notice the irritation, watch it arise, persist and then subside.

Focus on the irritation, not the person.



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i try
it's hard to maintain that level of contemplation on a day-to-day basis, sometimes i am just trying to live and not be an inward-thinking buddhist ......
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadhamma/
https://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/
http://buddhadust.net/backmatter/indexe ... ta_toc.htm
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
santa100
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by santa100 »

salayatananirodha wrote:i try
it's hard to maintain that level of contemplation on a day-to-day basis, sometimes i am just trying to live and not be an inward-thinking buddhist ......
Not sure where you live, but here in the States, you should be very careful when asking someone to wear their mask, or at least bring a gun with you before you do. Some worker at a store got shot just because they asked the customers to wear it. The US sure is leading the world in everything, including COVID cases!
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by binocular »

salayatananirodha wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:49 ami feel like most people who don't wear one are either stupid or they are making a political statement.
Along with those people who wear a mask with a valve, ie. the type of mask that protects the wearer, but not others from the wearer.

I think those people are just confident. Confident that nothing bad can ever happen to them; confident that they are healthy and simply cannot infect others; confident that no legal action can successfully be taken against them if they are infected and aren't taking precaution measures to protect others.

If one lacks that confidence, one will feel at a loss when dealing with people who do have such confidence.
what can i do to curb my irritation with these people?
Reflect that we are living in a dog-eat-dog world; that kindness and compassion are exceptions to the norm and must usually be earned and payed for.

Be more stingy with your own kindness and compassion, until you can actually practice them without this being some kind of loss for you, however subtle.

And as per the thread title, practice equanimity, ie. reflection on kamma. Beings are the owners and heirs of their actions.
things to think about that might make me more tolerant again.
Reflect that others could very well perceive you as dangerous (in the sense that you are a competitor for jobs/promotions; and a health risk).
Thinking of oneself as harmless (or even actually being mostly harmless) can come with a price when living among people who don't think this way.

People in a civilized world are supposed to abide by the social contract. When they don't, this is breach of contract. Hence the feeling of vulnerability and irritation in those who do abide by the social contract while others don't. When one protects others, but others don't protect one, there is a feeling of betrayal, loss.
i also have an issue at work with others not wearing the mask in a confined space and it's been weird for me to appeal to authority to try to get them to wear the mask. it's been a thing of anxiety -- people don't like me telling on them, don't want control exerted over their bodies.
It has been my impression that most people seem to believe that the laws are for the police to enforce, and nobody else -- regardless of what the laws are about. And they will resist if anyone else, esp. an ordinary citizen, expects them to act in line with the law.

I think the best thing you can do is to focus on doing your work well, protecting yourself as much as possible with your own actions (wearing a mask, sanitizing your hands etc.).

And as for inspiring others to act in line with sanitary measures: I think the optimal would be to find a few powerful situations, critical moments to bring up the issue. But this can also take up a lot of time and energy to do, so it's not necessarily worth it. And it could be potentially dangerous for you -- like the other person could deliberately cough or spit on you, or even physically assault you.
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by dharmacorps »

I definitely share your experience. I've been trying to reflect that this mask wearing thing is similar to human speech: some speech is pleasant, respectful, some speech is harsh, unpleasant, inconsiderate. All of this is normal and to be expected. All you can really say is that this is the normal constellation of expression of various humans.

Many who do not wear masks do so out of ignorance, too. At a minimum, they should be pitied.
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by DooDoot »

salayatananirodha wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:49 am our state just issued a mandate for everyone to wear a mask in public
sounds like when the state forced people to believe in god. there is evidence masks can cause the user more harm. i doubt buddhist equanimity was taught to be used in relation to unproven state directives
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by NuanceOfSuchness »

salayatananirodha wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:49 am our state just issued a mandate for everyone to wear a mask in public, but i still see people at the grocery store with no mask on. i feel strong dislike, it's surely making me bad kamma, but it's at least revealing the weakness i already had. i feel like most people who don't wear one are either stupid or they are making a political statement. whatever the case, i wish they would cover up their nasty mouth and nose and stop putting others at risk. what can i do to curb my irritation with these people? i don't think anyone can convince me that the pandemic is a complete hoax, but maybe there are some factoids that could help, things to think about that might make me more tolerant again. but this is not so much a topic about coronavirus as a nagging issue i have in daily life, referring to the pandemic but not completely depending on it. so i hope it won't be merged into a huge thread about corona.

i also have an issue at work with others not wearing the mask in a confined space and it's been weird for me to appeal to authority to try to get them to wear the mask. it's been a thing of anxiety -- people don't like me telling on them, don't want control exerted over their bodies. i would care less if i got it but i don't want to spread it to my household.
You fear death because you are attached to the body. Because you are attached to the body your neurotic mind needs to control what it perceives as its territory which is located around the vicinity of your body. It is you that is silly for believing that you can somehow hold to the notion that these things can be controlled. These movements of mind are ideas that you have unwittingly inherited from the very society you now fear.
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by Caodemarte »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:22 pm
salayatananirodha wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:49 am our state just issued a mandate for everyone to wear a mask in public
sounds like when the state forced people to believe in god. there is evidence masks can cause the user more harm. i doubt buddhist equanimity was taught to be used in relation to unproven state directives
There is no scientific evidence that masks “cause more harm;” there is ample scientific evidence that they help control the spread of specific diseases caused by airborne viruses, like the corona virus. It has always been my understanding that equanimity was taught to be used in nearly all circumstances where anger arises. Pity and compassion for those possessed by ignorance, arrogance, anger, fear, etc. all the harmful emotions) , including ourselves, seems an appropriate response.
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
DooDoot wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:22 pm
salayatananirodha wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:49 am our state just issued a mandate for everyone to wear a mask in public
sounds like when the state forced people to believe in god. there is evidence masks can cause the user more harm. i doubt buddhist equanimity was taught to be used in relation to unproven state directives
I have my written medical exemption from my GP, ready for when my state starts that tonight at midnight.

:jedi:

I have also made a "fake" mask, which will do nothing whatsoever to restrict my breathing, based upon its construction materials that I intend to wear when I'm at the shops, so as to avoid triggering COVID Karens and the unpleasantness that comes from that.

Anyway, to the topic, there are valid medical grounds for not wearing a mask, and I'm appreciative that my state recognizes that, at least. Anyone lacking in "equanimity for non-mask wearers" could reflect upon it too.

:anjali:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"Why now do you assume 'a being'? Mara, have you grasped a view?" (SN 5.10)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Wonder what Maskers think about leaving the nose uncovered? Equally dangerous or not so? I would think the latter.
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by DooDoot »

retrofuturist wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:26 pm I have my written medical exemption from my GP...
Appears very sensationalized & dubious but, if so, we must also develop equanimity towards this hysteria. The news says:
Victoria death toll rises as state rocked by second-worst day of new cases

A woman aged over 100, a woman in her 90s and a woman in her 80s all died, taking the state's death toll to 42 and the national tally to 126.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/coron ... 5fc0df8f09
Is the Victorian Soviet Govt giving people free face masks? If so, where are they purchased from? I am considering joining Antifa for a free face mask & hoodie:
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Re: equanimity for non-mask wearers

Post by Caodemarte »

The common medical knowledge:

"There are no known medical conditions aside from a severe skin condition [like a very severe burn that needs medical attention] on your face that would prevent a person from wearing this type of mask,” David Kaufman, MD, pulmonologist and director of the medical ICU at Tisch Hospital...
even people with respiratory illnesses—asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), and other lung diseases—can safely wear either surgical or fabric masks in public. "Finding a mask that fits well or a face covering with a fabric that is soft will help you stay comfortable while you help keep your family, friends, neighbors, and community safe from COVID-19 and other contagious diseases," says Dr. Kaufman.

Jim Keany, MD, emergency physician, patient safety physician champion, and former chief of staff at Mission Hospital in Orange County, California agrees that there are no medical conditions that would preclude someone from wearing a simple surgical or cloth face mask, because both masks have "no effect on respiratory mechanics." According to Dr. Keany, however, if you are having trouble breathing while wearing a cloth or surgical mask, you may not be wearing it correctly. "If you feel like you're sucking air through the mask, you are wearing the mask too tight," says Dr. Keany. "Simply look for a mask that has some stiffness to it, so that you don't suck it into your mouth [while breathing].

https://www.health.com/condition/infect ... -face-mask
Please wear masks in public, wash your hands, continue social distancing for the common good and practice equanimity and compassion towards others and yourself. That would seem to be the proper Buddhist response.
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