Are women evil?

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DooDoot
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by DooDoot »

Mr Albatross wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:19 pm the Blessed One's Dhamma

Their wantonness
In ancient story Kanha, it is said,
A single maid to princes five was wed,
Insatiate still she lusted for yet more
And with a hump-backed dwarf she played the whore.
The above story sounds dumb to me. A woman marrying five princes :roll: . How can she bear the princes the sons & heirs they want? All the above story shows in the pornographic mind of men, even in ancient times. It seems ridiculous.
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Aloka
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by Aloka »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:07 am The above story sounds dumb to me. A woman marrying five princes :roll: . How can she bear the princes the sons & heirs they want? All the above story shows is the pornographic mind of men, even in ancient times. It seems ridiculous.
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DNS
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by DNS »

Not sure if it's been mentioned already here (only skimmed this strange thread), but it's important to note that it is only the Jataka verses that are Canonical in Theravada, not the Jataka tales.

The misogynistic parts are only in the tales, not the verses.
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Gwi
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by Gwi »

urocentrum wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:15 pm Are there any Buddhist texts which specifically address the wickedness of women?
Women are (generally) full of lust.

Sattubhasta Jātakaṭṭhakathā (number 402):
"... a woman is not satisfied with three things:
(1) intercourse, (2) adornment, and (3) childbearing ...."


In all religion, women are very lustful.
Not because they are evil.

U can read Jātaka Aṭṭhakathā (stories)
And Dhammapada Aṭṭhakathā to know
The wickedness of women.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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bodom
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by bodom »

Gwi wrote:
Women are (generally) full of lust.
As are the majority of men.
Sattubhasta Jātakaṭṭhakathā (number 402):
"... a woman is not satisfied with three things:
(1) intercourse, (2) adornment, and (3) childbearing ...."
As are the majority of men.
In all religion, women are very lustful.
Not because they are evil.
Yes unfortunately religion's have demonized women from the very beginning.
U can read Jātaka Aṭṭhakathā (stories)
And Dhammapada Aṭṭhakathā to know
The wickedness of women.
You can look at world history and see the wickedness that is also found in men.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

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Gwi
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by Gwi »

bodom wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:24 pm
Gwi wrote:
Women are (generally) full of lust.
As are the majority of men.
Sattubhasta Jātakaṭṭhakathā (number 402):
"... a woman is not satisfied with three things:
(1) intercourse, (2) adornment, and (3) childbearing ...."
As are the majority of men.
In all religion, women are very lustful.
Not because they are evil.
Yes unfortunately religion's have demonized women from the very beginning.
U can read Jātaka Aṭṭhakathā (stories)
And Dhammapada Aṭṭhakathā to know
The wickedness of women.
You can look at world history and see the wickedness that is also found in men.

:anjali:
Before i read Jātaka Aṭṭhakathā
And Dhammapada Aṭṭhakathā, I think
women are loving beings, kind hearted, loving,
easy to control lust, forgiving, generous, and so on.
But, after read that, I realized how women are
(mostly) like that story.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
DiamondNgXZ
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

urocentrum wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:15 pm Are there any Buddhist texts which specifically address the wickedness of women?
To the rest of the forum: I am so sorry, this is answering the OP, don't pick up a pickaxe at me!

In general I believe these are spoken to male monks, for the purpose of removing lust and seeing attractiveness in women. For the purpose of seeing dangers in women. For the purpose of able to maintain celibacy. It should not be misuse for the purpose of unfairly discriminate, look down on women, not for justifying anti-women attitudes, which harms women. If you're a lay person who doesn't have an intention to ordain, it may not be suitable for you to read. For those who has yet to establish super strong faith in the Buddha, especially women, please don't read this. Or if you do, don't take it the wrong way, you can imagine that the Buddha would replace women with men if he was talking to Bhikkhunis, for suitable ones.

AN 2.61:
“Mendicants, females die without getting enough of two things. What two? Sexual intercourse and giving birth. Females die without getting enough of these two things.”
SN 1.76:
Youth is ending day and night.
Women are the stain of celibacy,
to which this generation clings.
https://suttacentral.net/an5.229/en/sujato AN5.229
“Mendicants, there are these five drawbacks of a black snake. What five? It’s filthy, stinking, cowardly, frightening, and treacherous. These are the five dangers of a black snake.

In the same way there are five drawbacks of a female. What five? She’s filthy, stinking, cowardly, frightening, and treacherous. These are the five drawbacks of a female.”
https://suttacentral.net/an5.230/en/sujato AN5.230:
“Mendicants, there are these five drawbacks of a black snake. What five? It’s irritable, hostile, venomous, fork-tongued, and treacherous. These are the five dangers of a black snake.

In the same way there are five drawbacks of a female. What five? She’s irritable, hostile, venomous, fork-tongued, and treacherous. This is a female’s venom: usually she’s very lustful. This is a female’s forked tongue: usually she speaks divisively. This is a female’s treachery: usually she’s an adulteress. These are the five drawbacks of a female.”
https://suttacentral.net/an5.55/en/sujato AN5.55
When a woman walks, she occupies a man’s mind. When a woman stands … sits … lies down … laughs … speaks … sings … cries … is injured, she occupies a man’s mind. Even when a woman is dead, she occupies a man’s mind. For if anyone should be rightly called ‘an all-round snare of Māra’, it’s females.
AN4.122
“There he sees women with their dress in disarray and loosely attired. When he sees them, lust invades his mind. With his mind invaded by lust, he gives up the training and reverts to the lower life. This is called a bhikkhu who has given up the training and reverted to the lower life because of the peril of fierce fish. ‘The peril of fierce fish’ is a designation for women. This is called the peril of fierce fish.”
AN4.80:
“On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Kosambī in Ghosita’s Park. Then the Venerable Ānanda approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side, and said:
“Bhante, why is it that women do not sit in council, or engage in business, or go to Kamboja?”774
“Ānanda, women are prone to anger; women are envious; [83] women are miserly; women are unwise. This is why women do not sit in council, engage in business, or go to Kamboja”
AN3.129:
“Then the Venerable Anuruddha approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side, and said: “Now, Bhante, with the divine eye, which is purified and surpasses the human, I see that women, with the breakup of the body, after death, are mostly reborn in the plane of misery, in a bad destination, in the lower world, in hell. What qualities does a woman possess on account of which, with the breakup of the body, after death, she is reborn in the plane of misery, in a bad destination, in the lower world, in hell?”
“When she possesses three qualities, Anuruddha, with the breakup of the body, after death, a woman is reborn in the plane of misery, in a bad destination, in the lower world, in hell. What three?
(1) “Here, Anuruddha, in the morning a woman dwells at home with a mind obsessed by the stain of miserliness. (2) At midday she dwells at home with a mind obsessed by envy. (3) And in the evening she dwells at home with a mind obsessed by sensual lust. When she possesses these three qualities, with the breakup of the body, after death, a woman is reborn in the plane of misery, in a bad destination, in the lower world, in hell.”
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by mabw »

Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:21 pm
Before i read Jātaka Aṭṭhakathā
And Dhammapada Aṭṭhakathā, I think
women are loving beings, kind hearted, loving,
easy to control lust, forgiving, generous, and so on.
But, after read that, I realized how women are
(mostly) like that story.
It is scary that your reading of the texts brought that conclusion and something tells me that it is not healthy.
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Gwi
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by Gwi »

mabw wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:56 pm
Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:21 pm
Before i read Jātaka Aṭṭhakathā
And Dhammapada Aṭṭhakathā, I think
women are loving beings, kind hearted, loving,
easy to control lust, forgiving, generous, and so on.
But, after read that, I realized how women are
(mostly) like that story.
It is scary that your reading of the texts brought that conclusion and something tells me that it is not healthy.
After reading it, you will know.
Before reading, I (will) also say what you say.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
may.all.bliss
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by may.all.bliss »

DNS wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:50 pm Not sure if it's been mentioned already here (only skimmed this strange thread), but it's important to note that it is only the Jataka verses that are Canonical in Theravada, not the Jataka tales.

The misogynistic parts are only in the tales, not the verses.
I think it was Bhikku Analayo whom also found evidence they were added in later, I think due to some linguistic clues or something, I can't remember but he did some work on it.

In any case it's incredibly nonsensical to see women as evil, as they are part of, or better said, are life, and even part of Buddha nature or mind, as Nibbana is also called 'The Indivisible',.. and form is emptiness, emptiness is form.
mabw
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by mabw »

Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:13 pm
After reading it, you will know.
Before reading, I (will) also say what you say.
My mum whom I love dearly, is, oh , surprisingly, a woman. Some of my most respected teachers at school were women. As a tutor, some of my best students are women. Now, replace all the above with male pronouns and it will work just the same. I do not see why half of humanity should be singled out.

I will agree with DiamondNgXZ on this. Beyond helping monks practise celibacy, I cannot think of any other reason why those teachings were given. And even that is problematic, since historically, as far as I am aware, from Tibet, to South East Asia, to East Asia, nuns have been mistreated by monks and have not been treated as equals. To what extent verses like these have contributed to such a phenomenon, i have no idea, but I wonder if the situation would be different had there been no such verses. An American nun in the Korean Zen tradition once remarked about the superiority complex of some Korean monks simply because they were male. Do you find such a mentality conducive to your practice? If you do, fine. I don't.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

DiamondNgXZ wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:40 pmIn general I believe these are spoken to male monks, for the purpose of removing lust and seeing attractiveness in women. For the purpose of seeing dangers in women. For the purpose of able to maintain celibacy. It should not be misuse for the purpose of unfairly discriminate, look down on women, not for justifying anti-women attitudes, which harms women.
:goodpost: Context is everything here.

Please note that if a woman commits adultery, more often than not, it will involve a man.
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Gwi
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by Gwi »

mabw wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:13 pm
Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:13 pm
After reading it, you will know.
Before reading, I (will) also say what you say.
My mum whom I love dearly, is, oh , surprisingly, a woman. Some of my most respected teachers at school were women. As a tutor, some of my best students are women. Now, replace all the above with male pronouns and it will work just the same. I do not see why half of humanity should be singled out.

I will agree with DiamondNgXZ on this. Beyond helping monks practise celibacy, I cannot think of any other reason why those teachings were given. And even that is problematic, since historically, as far as I am aware, from Tibet, to South East Asia, to East Asia, nuns have been mistreated by monks and have not been treated as equals. To what extent verses like these have contributed to such a phenomenon, i have no idea, but I wonder if the situation would be different had there been no such verses. An American nun in the Korean Zen tradition once remarked about the superiority complex of some Korean monks simply because they were male. Do you find such a mentality conducive to your practice? If you do, fine. I don't.
Before i read Jātaka Aṭṭhakathā
And Dhammapada Aṭṭhakathā, I think
women are loving beings, kind hearted, loving,
easy to control lust, forgiving, generous, and so on.
But, after read that, I realized how women are
(mostly) like that story.


* mostly <-----

Women are (generally) full of lust.

Sattubhasta Jātakaṭṭhakathā (number 402):
"... a woman is not satisfied with three things:
(1) intercourse, (2) adornment, and (3) childbearing ...."


In all religion, women are very lustful.
Not because they are evil.

U can read Jātaka Aṭṭhakathā (stories)
And Dhammapada Aṭṭhakathā to know
The wickedness of women.



* generally <----





61 (10)
“Para bhikkhu, para perempuan mati dalam ketidak-puasan dan
ketidak-senangan dalam dua hal. Apakah dua ini? [1] Hubungan
seksual dan [2] melahirkan anak. Para perempuan mati dalam ketidak-puasan dan ketidak-senangan dalam kedua hal ini.”
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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Dan74
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by Dan74 »

People have always projected their issues onto others. It's not my lust, it's the women trying to seduce me with their charms. They are the lustful ones.

It's not my anger, it's those other people provoking me.

Etc, etc. Some women have more lust, others have less lust. Just like men. Ajahn Chah recalled that he was an exceptionally lustful monk, and it was facing it and dealing with it, that gave him the energy to do the hard work of practice.

Some of us have issues with women, some of us have issues with men. But the issues are right here, they are our work, our responsibility. They are not out there. Let's quit projecting and own them.
_/|\_
thepea
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Re: Are women evil?

Post by thepea »

Could someone define woman so we can be clear as to what is a woman vs a man.
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