Risk of taking vaccine jab

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

Post by Ceisiwr »

Nicholas Weeks wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:19 pm Dr Malone a top virologist lays out the ugly truth:

https://rumble.com/vkkriq-episode-1137- ... mp;mrefc=2
I didn't watch it all, but I didn't see much of an "ugly truth". Rather Dr Malone was offering an alternative vaccination strategy. If his ideas are valid is a different matter. That said some of his thoughts on a high vaccination rate driving resistant strains sounds questionable.
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

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The WHO said that there's newer variants (delta, lambda, etc..) than vaccines can catch up. Israel said the phizer vaccine is only 36% effective against delta.

"Vaccines ‘outpaced by variants’, WHO warns, as Delta now in 98 countries" https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... -countries

By the way, this is like the third SARS virus china has released in the past 20 years, SARS was deadly in Canada in 2004.

Also don't forget H2N2, H1N1 and a bunch of other viruses that China unleashed on the world. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adve ... nce-health

The main problem is China and their overpopulation and poor animal hygiene standards. You're not supposed to mix animal agriculture and urban environments, that's what led to the plague.

I recommend watching this video that explains how exactly these viruses happen



China needs to be punished and taught a lesson, otherwise they'll keep releasing new pandemics every 5-10 years like they've been doing the past 50 years.

Vaccines are a short term solution, but they're not the long term solution as China keeps pumping out these viruses.
There is only one battle that could be won, and that is the battle against the 3 poisons. Any other battle is a guaranteed loss because you're going to die either way.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

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un8- wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:55 pm

The WHO said that there's newer variants (delta, lambda, etc..) than vaccines can catch up. "Vaccines ‘outpaced by variants’, WHO warns, as Delta now in 98 countries"
That generally happens when vaccine rollout is slow.
The main problem is China and their overpopulation and poor animal hygiene standards. You're not supposed to mix animal agriculture and urban environments, that's what led to the plague.
It's hardly them "unleashing" viruses upon the world then. As for the spread of Yersinia pestis I believe that was mostly spread due to urbanisation and growing trade routes.
China needs to be punished and taught a lesson, otherwise they'll keep releasing new pandemics every 5-10 years like they've been doing the past 50 years.
People need to be taught a lesson for reproducing and being poor?
Israel said the phizer vaccine is only 36% effective against delta.
Mind sharing where you got that from?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

Post by un8- »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:06 pm
un8- wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:55 pm

The WHO said that there's newer variants (delta, lambda, etc..) than vaccines can catch up. "Vaccines ‘outpaced by variants’, WHO warns, as Delta now in 98 countries"
That generally happens when vaccine rollout is slow.
The main problem is China and their overpopulation and poor animal hygiene standards. You're not supposed to mix animal agriculture and urban environments, that's what led to the plague.
It's hardly them "unleashing" viruses upon the world then. As for the spread of Yersinia pestis I believe that was mostly spread due to urbanisation and growing trade routes.
China needs to be punished and taught a lesson, otherwise they'll keep releasing new pandemics every 5-10 years like they've been doing the past 50 years.
People need to be taught a lesson for reproducing and being poor?
Israel said the phizer vaccine is only 36% effective against delta.
Mind sharing where you got that from?
Communist governments need to be punished for lack of transparency and for dishonesty, no different than the Soviet Union and Chernobyl, caring more about saving face than preventing a nuclear disaster, which China is doing the same thing with wet markets. 2004 SARs happened because cages were stacked and animals were shitting on each other. It has nothing to do with poverty.

As for the Israeli source I heard it on the radio last week, that it dropped from 64% to 36% as more data was gathered, but reuters says the 36% is only for 1 dose, and DW says the 64% is from two dose.

https://m.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-covid ... a-58263950

https://www.reuters.com/business/health ... 021-07-21/
There is only one battle that could be won, and that is the battle against the 3 poisons. Any other battle is a guaranteed loss because you're going to die either way.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

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un8- wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:24 pm
Communist governments need to be punished for lack of transparency and for dishonesty, no different than the Soviet Union and Chernobyl, caring more about saving face than preventing a nuclear disaster, which China is doing the same thing with wet markets. 2004 SARs happened because cages were stacked and animals were shitting on each other. It has nothing to do with poverty.
Ok, but this is different to what you originally said. Regarding SARS‑CoV‑2, I believe it has to do more with the trade in meat of wild animals rather than them "shitting on each other". Pretty similar to that other zoonotic organism Ebola and the bushmeat trade. Sadly this trade is tied to poverty, since it is a means to make money for a lot of people on the breadline.
As for the Israeli source I heard it on the radio last week, that it dropped from 64% to 36% as more data was gathered, but reuters says the 36% is only for 1 dose, and DW says the 64% is from two dose.

https://m.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-covid ... a-58263950

https://www.reuters.com/business/health ... 021-07-21/
Thanks. Not quire as dire as you first stated then.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

Post by un8- »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:31 pm
un8- wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:24 pm
Communist governments need to be punished for lack of transparency and for dishonesty, no different than the Soviet Union and Chernobyl, caring more about saving face than preventing a nuclear disaster, which China is doing the same thing with wet markets. 2004 SARs happened because cages were stacked and animals were shitting on each other. It has nothing to do with poverty.
Ok, but this is different to what you originally said. Regarding SARS‑CoV‑2, I believe it has to do more with the trade in meat of wild animals rather than them "shitting on each other". Pretty similar to that other zoonotic organism Ebola and the bushmeat trade. Sadly this trade is tied to poverty, since it is a means to make money for a lot of people on the breadline.
As for the Israeli source I heard it on the radio last week, that it dropped from 64% to 36% as more data was gathered, but reuters says the 36% is only for 1 dose, and DW says the 64% is from two dose.

https://m.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-covid ... a-58263950

https://www.reuters.com/business/health ... 021-07-21/
Thanks. Not quire as dire as you first stated then.
It may be still worse, I don't know what the latest effacy data is, maybe 50%, it seems like the more data they get the more it drops. One thing that is comforting is that it's preventing deaths, and really that's all that matters.

No, it's not different than what I originally said, I said china needs to be punished. It was wet markers that caused the 2003-2004 sars, and it was wet markets that apparently caused 2019 ncov. So china again, is denying responsibility. They only banned wet markets for show, and then let them open up again. I recommend reading this article which shows how easily Covid could have been prevented as it's 2003 sars all over again, just like Chernobyl could have been prevented if the Soviet Union wasn't such a shitty organization that lacked accountability, just like China's gov. https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2007/03 ... scare.html
There is only one battle that could be won, and that is the battle against the 3 poisons. Any other battle is a guaranteed loss because you're going to die either way.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

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un8- wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:38 pm
No, it's not different than what I originally said, I said china needs to be punished.
You said more than "China needs to be punished". Specifically in your original comment you said

"The main problem is China and their overpopulation and poor animal hygiene standards. You're not supposed to mix animal agriculture and urban environments, that's what led to the plague...China needs to be punished and taught a lesson, otherwise they'll keep releasing new pandemics every 5-10 years like they've been doing the past 50 years."

Then you said

"Communist governments need to be punished for lack of transparency and for dishonesty, no different than the Soviet Union and Chernobyl, caring more about saving face than preventing a nuclear disaster, which China is doing the same thing with wet markets. 2004 SARs happened because cages were stacked and animals were shitting on each other. It has nothing to do with poverty."

In your first comment you wished for China to be punished due to it's overpopulation and poor enforcement of regulations (or non-existence of), since this in your view was the cause of them unleashing viruses upon the world. In your second comment you wished for them to be punished for their lack of transparency and attempted coverup. Whilst the common theme in your posts has been "punish China" the reasons for doing so changed between posts, so I was correct to say it wasn't what you originally said.

Regarding China, whilst it's true they were dishonest and tried to cover it up at the beginning and so a case could be made for some international reaction to that (although how without jeopardising international trade is beyond me) I don't think a case can be made in relation to punishing them (by whatever means) because they have so large a population and prevalent wildmeat markets. Any action actually might increase the level of trade in wildmeat, thus making things worse. The best way forward is for China to bring in better regulations, but also to continue to lift millions out of poverty through capitalism.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

Post by un8- »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:48 pm
un8- wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:38 pm
No, it's not different than what I originally said, I said china needs to be punished.
You said more than "China needs to be punished". Specifically in your original comment you said

"The main problem is China and their overpopulation and poor animal hygiene standards. You're not supposed to mix animal agriculture and urban environments, that's what led to the plague...China needs to be punished and taught a lesson, otherwise they'll keep releasing new pandemics every 5-10 years like they've been doing the past 50 years."

Then you said

"Communist governments need to be punished for lack of transparency and for dishonesty, no different than the Soviet Union and Chernobyl, caring more about saving face than preventing a nuclear disaster, which China is doing the same thing with wet markets. 2004 SARs happened because cages were stacked and animals were shitting on each other. It has nothing to do with poverty."

In your first comment you wished for China to be punished due to it's overpopulation and poor enforcement of regulations (or non-existence of), since this in your view was the cause of them unleashing viruses upon the world. In your second comment you wished for them to be punished for their lack of transparency and attempted coverup. Whilst the common theme in your posts has been "punish China" the reasons for doing so changed between posts, so I was correct to say it wasn't what you originally said.

Regarding China, whilst it's true they were dishonest and tried to cover it up at the beginning and so a case could be made for some international reaction to that (although how without jeopardising international trade is beyond me) I don't think a case can be made in relation to punishing them (by whatever means) because they have so large a population and prevalent wildmeat markets. Any action actually might increase the level of trade in wildmeat, thus making things worse. The best way forward is for China to bring in better regulations, but also to continue to lift millions out of poverty through capitalism.
The two are connected, they should be punished for poor hygeine standards and for knowingly doing these markets when they're wrong. Also, YES it does have to do with stacking cages which you said it didn't

From 2003
It randomly bumps into humans, usually when there has been a change in population or a change in patterns with respect to some animal,” he explains. In the animal markets of Guangdong Province, cages of bats, badgers, palm civets, raccoon dogs, and other animals were stacked one on top of the other. The opportunity for fecal-oral viral transmission in this context was tremendous, recalling the vertical human transmission at Amoy Gardens. We may never know the precise event that allowed SARS to infect humans, but the scale of the Guangdong markets and the proximity of humans and animals there probably contributed to the emergence of SARS.
Furthermore it has nothing to do with poverty as you claimed

From 2003:
By the end of January, numerous instances of the disease had been reported, with a cluster among people who worked in the flourishing live-animal markets of the area, which provide exotic meats for a growing middle-class clientele. Then, on January 30, the first known super-spreading event took place, when a 44-year-old seafood seller hospitalized in Guangzhou passed the virus to 19 relatives and 50 or more hospital staff members.
It's no secret that the Chinese government gives no shits and allows killing exotic animals for their rich buyers who consume things like powdered ivory.

You don't see these pandemics coming from India which has the same level of poverty, if not worse, than China.
There is only one battle that could be won, and that is the battle against the 3 poisons. Any other battle is a guaranteed loss because you're going to die either way.
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

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un8- wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:55 pm
The two are connected, they should be punished for poor hygeine standards and for knowingly doing these markets when they're wrong. Also, YES it does have to do with stacking cages which you said it didn't
Now you have removed the "overpopulation" aspect of it. Regarding faeces, what I originally said was

"I believe it has to do more with the trade in meat of wild animals rather than them "shitting on each other".

The trade in wildmeat is the root problem.
Furthermore it has nothing to do with poverty as you claimed

From 2003:
By the end of January, numerous instances of the disease had been reported, with a cluster among people who worked in the flourishing live-animal markets of the area, which provide exotic meats for a growing middle-class clientele. Then, on January 30, the first known super-spreading event took place, when a 44-year-old seafood seller hospitalized in Guangzhou passed the virus to 19 relatives and 50 or more hospital staff members.
You need to give references when you quote something here. Regardless, this relates to the consumer whilst I was talking about the supplier.
You don't see these pandemics coming from India which has the same level of poverty, if not worse, than China.
No, but India does have it's own issues with zoonotic diseases among others.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

Post by waryoffolly »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:39 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:19 pm Dr Malone a top virologist lays out the ugly truth:

https://rumble.com/vkkriq-episode-1137- ... mp;mrefc=2
I didn't watch it all, but I didn't see much of an "ugly truth". Rather Dr Malone was offering an alternative vaccination strategy. If his ideas are valid is a different matter. That said some of his thoughts on a high vaccination rate driving resistant strains sounds questionable.
Vaccination that still allows spreading of a virus can increase virulence:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516275/

Here’s a preprint (ie an early version of a paper prior to being submitted to a conference/journal etc) investigating this question for covid specifically: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 2.full.pdf
Our findings indicate that while vaccine-driven virulence evolution in SARS-CoV-2 is a theoretical risk, the consequences of this event would be limited for vaccinated populations. However, virulence evolution should be monitored, as the ramifications of a more virulent strain spreading into an under-vaccinated population would be more severe
Sounds like the potential danger is that a more virulent strain could move from a vaccinated population to a mostly unvaccinated population. Interestingly the title of this preprint changed from “ No current evidence for risk of vaccine-driven virulence evolution in SARS-CoV-2” to “ Assessing the risk of vaccine-driven virulence evolution in SARS-CoV-2”. I haven’t read it in full though nor tried to assess it’s quality.
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

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waryoffolly wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:15 pm Vaccination that still allows spreading of a virus can increase virulence:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516275/
Yes, when the uptake is low/slow but that isn’t what he was arguing (based on what I saw). The risk of vaccine resistant strains increases when you have say 50% vaccinated and 50% unvaccinated.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

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waryoffolly wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:15 pm
Here’s a preprint (ie an early version of a paper prior to being submitted to a conference/journal etc) investigating this question for covid specifically: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 2.full.pdf
Interesting but not worth much yet until it’s been peer reviewed

“This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.”
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

Post by waryoffolly »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:27 pm
waryoffolly wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:15 pm
Here’s a preprint (ie an early version of a paper prior to being submitted to a conference/journal etc) investigating this question for covid specifically: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 2.full.pdf
Interesting but not worth much yet until it’s been peer reviewed

“This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.”
A preprint means it is intended by the authors to be submitted (at a later date) to a journal/conference for peer review.
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

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waryoffolly wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:47 pm
A preprint means it is intended by the authors to be submitted (at a later date) to a journal/conference for peer review.
Yes I know, so it hasn’t been peer reviewed. This is why I said “until”.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Risk of taking vaccine jab

Post by un8- »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:06 pm
un8- wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:55 pm
The two are connected, they should be punished for poor hygeine standards and for knowingly doing these markets when they're wrong. Also, YES it does have to do with stacking cages which you said it didn't
Now you have removed the "overpopulation" aspect of it. Regarding faeces, what I originally said was

"I believe it has to do more with the trade in meat of wild animals rather than them "shitting on each other".

The trade in wildmeat is the root problem.
Furthermore it has nothing to do with poverty as you claimed

From 2003:
By the end of January, numerous instances of the disease had been reported, with a cluster among people who worked in the flourishing live-animal markets of the area, which provide exotic meats for a growing middle-class clientele. Then, on January 30, the first known super-spreading event took place, when a 44-year-old seafood seller hospitalized in Guangzhou passed the virus to 19 relatives and 50 or more hospital staff members.
You need to give references when you quote something here. Regardless, this relates to the consumer whilst I was talking about the supplier.
You don't see these pandemics coming from India which has the same level of poverty, if not worse, than China.
No, but India does have it's own issues with zoonotic diseases among others.
I did give reference, it's from the Harvard link. Both India and China have similar population levels and density, but India doesn't produce international pandemics. I haven't removed anything, overpopulation is a factor in producing pandemics, see the video I linked earlier, about mixing urban areas and animal agriculture. It's all connected.

I don't understand how anyone can say it's poverty

- China's GDP is going to surpass the US's
- They have one of the largest video game companies, Tencent
- Crypto mining in China is so huge it spiked energy consumption noticed by the entire world, and caused price inflation in the gpu market
- They have the largest esports league rivaling south Korea
- They have a trillion dollar software hacking industry

China is no longer a second world country. Coronavirus was due to government corruption and lack of accountability regarding wet markets and consumption of exotic animals. They're notorious for animal rights abuses, hunting endangered animals for ivory, and overconsumption of animals, they steal fish from other countries fishing waters, like Argentina's.

My main point is that vaccines are a short term fix, and unless the Chinese gov is dealt with, there will be another pandemic in a decade. Hence China being the main topic at G7 this year.
There is only one battle that could be won, and that is the battle against the 3 poisons. Any other battle is a guaranteed loss because you're going to die either way.
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