Booster dose

[Mkoll]

I hear the news reports repeat that boosters appear to be effective against hospitalisation, but have not looked at the evidence. Has anyone here looked at it carefully?

The hospital system I work for operates in a few metropolitan areas. They send out pretty regular updates about Covid. Here is a graphic from an update that was sent recently. I've cropped the image to protect my identity. The data covers a little less than two months.

Shouldn’t need much explanation.

But if the hospitals are overwhelmed in the process there will be a lot of unnecessary deaths, not just from Covid, but from lack of capacity that will lead to delays for all kinds of treatments for other conditions.

Yes, this is the case in the major metropolitan area I work in. We're setting records for the number of hospitalized Covid patients---the area hasn't seen this many at any time during the entire pandemic. Most hospitals in the area have cancelled all elective surgeries. My hospital has expanded the ICU into other units, turned multiple floors into pure Covid units, doubled up patients in rooms...basically everything that has happened before during prior peaks. This time, the ED is overflowing more than ever before because of the sheer number of people with Covid. Patients are spending days in the ED as boarders---that's what we call people who are have been selected to be admitted to the hospital, but there are just no staffed beds available for them so they stay in the ED.

If 0.1% of our population needed hospitalisation, for some reason, that would be 4,000 people. We have the order of 1000 beds in our hospitals.

The capacity number that really matters is staffed beds. A hospital bed is not helping anybody if there’s no staff to care for the patient that could be there. And at least in the United States, staffing was already a problem before the pandemic started. Now, it's beyond the pale with record numbers missing: out sick with Covid, quitting to make much more money travelling, quitting because they're close to retirement and now's as good a time as any, and just getting burned out and quitting for any number of other valid reasons.

[Sam Vara]

...

Many thanks, Mkoll. I find that both clear and convincing.

[asahi]

No airways
No pandemics worldwide

[thepea]

I hear the news reports repeat that boosters appear to be effective against hospitalisation, but have not looked at the evidence. Has anyone here looked at it carefully?

The hospital system I work for operates in a few metropolitan areas. They send out pretty regular updates about Covid. Here is a graphic from an update that was sent recently. I've cropped the image to protect my identity. The data covers a little less than two months.

Clipboard01 - Copy.jpg

Shouldn’t need much explanation.

But if the hospitals are overwhelmed in the process there will be a lot of unnecessary deaths, not just from Covid, but from lack of capacity that will lead to delays for all kinds of treatments for other conditions.

Yes, this is the case in the major metropolitan area I work in. We're setting records for the number of hospitalized Covid patients---the area hasn't seen this many at any time during the entire pandemic. Most hospitals in the area have cancelled all elective surgeries. My hospital has expanded the ICU into other units, turned multiple floors into pure Covid units, doubled up patients in rooms...basically everything that has happened before during prior peaks. This time, the ED is overflowing more than ever before because of the sheer number of people with Covid. Patients are spending days in the ED as boarders---that's what we call people who are have been selected to be admitted to the hospital, but there are just no staffed beds available for them so they stay in the ED.

If 0.1% of our population needed hospitalisation, for some reason, that would be 4,000 people. We have the order of 1000 beds in our hospitals.

The capacity number that really matters is staffed beds. A hospital bed is not helping anybody if there’s no staff to care for the patient that could be there. And at least in the United States, staffing was already a problem before the pandemic started. Now, it's beyond the pale with record numbers missing: out sick with Covid, quitting to make much more money travelling, quitting because they're close to retirement and now's as good a time as any, and just getting burned out and quitting for any number of other valid reasons.

What state are you in, Florida and Texas are wide open no issues there. They never really took any precautions.

[SarathW]

...

Many thanks, Mkoll. I find that both clear and convincing.

Yes, they are good statistics but I just wonder it is biased towards the booster.
The only way to compare this is by comparing a sample of say 100 each with, not vaccinated, fully vaccinated, and fully vaccinated with a booster.

[Sam Vara]

...

Many thanks, Mkoll. I find that both clear and convincing.

Yes, they are good statistics but I just wonder it is biased towards the booster.
The only way to compare this is by comparing a sample of say 100 each with, not vaccinated, fully vaccinated, and fully vaccinated with a booster.

Given that the percentage of USA fully vaccinated is above 60%, those stats are good enough for me. Only if the numbers were skewed the other way - more hospitalisation and deaths in the vaccinated - would it ring alarm bells.

[thepea]

...

Many thanks, Mkoll. I find that both clear and convincing.

Yes, they are good statistics but I just wonder it is biased towards the booster.
The only way to compare this is by comparing a sample of say 100 each with, not vaccinated, fully vaccinated, and fully vaccinated with a booster.

What they need is categories
1.totally abstaining from vaccine
2.Took one vaccine but not considered vaccinated.
3.Took both vaccines but not 14 days so unvaccinated.
4. Took both vaccines but no booster so unvaccinated
5. Took both vaccines and considered vaccinated.
6. Took both vaccines plus booster so considered vaccinated.
There is a high percentage of population considered unvaccinated.
We cannot trust any numbers from biased sources such as hospitals as their agenda is to push vaccines.

[[james]]

It may soon be necessary to add 7, 8, 9, etc. if the virus stays ahead of the boosters. The Canadian province where I reside is starting to muse out loud that compulsory vaccination may be required. I’ve had my two jabs plus booster but am beginning to doubt my willingness to continue. At what point does this virus become completely adapted to the vaccine?

[Ceisiwr]

It may soon be necessary to add 7, 8, 9, etc. if the virus stays ahead of the boosters. The Canadian province where I reside is starting to muse out loud that compulsory vaccination may be required. I’ve had my two jabs plus booster but am beginning to doubt my willingness to continue. At what point does this virus become completely adapted to the vaccine?

Do you have this same concern about annual flu shots?

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

France is one of the most highly vaccinated countries in Europe, with more than 90% of over-12s eligible for the shot fully vaccinated.

Meanwhile, new coronavirus infections are rising rapidly across France as the new Omicron variant takes hold.

The country recorded more than 300,000 new cases for the second time in a week on Friday and admissions to intensive care wards are rising steadily, putting healthcare systems under strain.

Some hospitals have reported that some 85% of ICU patients are not vaccinated against Covid-19.

[[james]]

Do you have this same concern about annual flu shots?

I don’t take the annual flu shot. However, back when the pandemic was first starting I was quite ill in my lungs and decided to go ahead with the vaccine despite misgivings about the vaccine itself and the fear driven decision making that was (and continues to be) driving the pandemic response. I recognize the difficult situation that decision makers are in, but feel that much of the response continues to be less than fully considered.

[Disciple]

Two is enough for me. I think I read somewhere some countries are starting to give out the fourth shot.

[Dan74]

Many thanks, Mkoll. I find that both clear and convincing.

Yes, they are good statistics but I just wonder it is biased towards the booster.
The only way to compare this is by comparing a sample of say 100 each with, not vaccinated, fully vaccinated, and fully vaccinated with a booster.

Given that the percentage of USA fully vaccinated is above 60%, those stats are good enough for me. Only if the numbers were skewed the other way - more hospitalisation and deaths in the vaccinated - would it ring alarm bells.

Exactly.

In fact, if that's taken into account and especially the fact that most hospitalizations are of the elderly where the percentage of the vaccinated is much higher, then the difference becomes even starker.

The only question mark in my mind is vaxxing kids. In the US 1.9 million kids 5-11 have tested positive, in reality many more have had covid since kids are mostly asymptomatic. Do you know how many deaths? Under 100. And that includes prior comorbidities. I might be wrong, but I don't see a convincing reason to vaxx this cohort. Unless there are significantly more long term effects.

[Dan74]

Many thanks, Mkoll. I find that both clear and convincing.

Yes, they are good statistics but I just wonder it is biased towards the booster.
The only way to compare this is by comparing a sample of say 100 each with, not vaccinated, fully vaccinated, and fully vaccinated with a booster.

What they need is categories
1.totally abstaining from vaccine
2.Took one vaccine but not considered vaccinated.
3.Took both vaccines but not 14 days so unvaccinated.
4. Took both vaccines but no booster so unvaccinated
5. Took both vaccines and considered vaccinated.
6. Took both vaccines plus booster so considered vaccinated.
There is a high percentage of population considered unvaccinated.
We cannot trust any numbers from biased sources such as hospitals as their agenda is to push vaccines.

Indeed one can only trust numbers from sources that align with one's opinions.

[thepea]

It may soon be necessary to add 7, 8, 9, etc. if the virus stays ahead of the boosters. The Canadian province where I reside is starting to muse out loud that compulsory vaccination may be required. I’ve had my two jabs plus booster but am beginning to doubt my willingness to continue. At what point does this virus become completely adapted to the vaccine?

Do you have this same concern about annual flu shots?

I’ve never ever taken a flu shot.