masturbation what's wrong?

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Ceisiwr
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by Ceisiwr »

As it’s late I can only briefly reply. All sexual activity is unwholesome kamma. Any sexual act thus leads to unpleasant results. If someone is going to have sex it’s best to limit it to the confines of a committed relationship. Remember the 5 precepts are only the bare basics of virtue. You can always do more. For example the 5 precepts don’t cover gambling or overeating, but it is best not to indulge in those behaviours.
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understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
SteRo
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by SteRo »

mario92 wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 1:45 am Namaste since i ended school in december 2017 i had tried to be celibate, but never succeed for a long time, at this time i think it is not wise to keep following that path. Problems with acne had arisen and also digestive problems, sleep problems and fatigue. I had tried asubha and meditation but i am still subject to desire as still watch facebook (and youtube and also have instagram due to bussiness issue) to counter atack disatisfaction and discontent, also everyday beautiful ladies enter my store, so im bombarded everyday. I also have problems with pornography, but i do my best to avoid using the phone. I want to ask some questions how do 5 precept practitioner deal with desire? Is taoist sex the only way to suceed as layman(like retaining seminal luquid and thus having good health)? My father tells me that i should look for a girlfriend, but social and economic conditions along the fear of getting sexual disease, having an unwanted pregnancy also arise in my mind, and also that woman can be very evil (from experience), or that you dont know if the other person is married (some can lie). Also, do desire diminish if i have girlfriend? Thanks I think one of the main problems is bad health.
'Thinking about' from the perspective of the intellect conditioned by religious doctrinal views without experience of what is thought about is problematic. Better to first collect experiences of all aspects of sexual activity and based on these experiences assess the pros and cons in terms of what one considers to be 'a good life'.
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Pondera
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by Pondera »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 11:33 pm As it’s late I can only briefly reply. All sexual activity is unwholesome kamma. Any sexual act thus leads to unpleasant results. If someone is going to have sex it’s best to limit it to the confines of a committed relationship. Remember the 5 precepts are only the bare basics of virtue. You can always do more. For example the 5 precepts don’t cover gambling or overeating, but it is best not to indulge in those behaviours.
Well, I do look forward to your more extensive reply.

The message of the sutta is that Nanda was not enjoying the holy life. The “inferior” life consisted in “knocking boots” with a beautiful Sakyan girl.

So, casual sex seems to be a delight of sorts. Something that binds us to the round of rebirths.

Why is everything sending us to Hell? Human beings are generally good.

A human being who has casual sex is still a good person.

As long as you’re not breaking a precept, you’re in the right.

If the Buddha wanted to, he could have made that particular precept very, very strict. The Buddha knew the results of kamma. Casual sex with a self sufficient woman was not included in the precepts as an offence for a reason.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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StrivingforMonkhood
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by StrivingforMonkhood »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 11:33 pm As it’s late I can only briefly reply. All sexual activity is unwholesome kamma. Any sexual act thus leads to unpleasant results. If someone is going to have sex it’s best to limit it to the confines of a committed relationship. Remember the 5 precepts are only the bare basics of virtue. You can always do more. For example the 5 precepts don’t cover gambling or overeating, but it is best not to indulge in those behaviours.
Great advice! Even overeating is not a good thing.

Nothing great comes from any sexual activity.

Feeling guilty about sex is of no use, either. And, yes, if sex is that important, it is best to be in a committed relationship, but that we know that is not possible for many young men.

Repression and great are not the answers, but rather seeing clearly in the meaningless of your sexual behavior over time.
May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness

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confusedlayman
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by confusedlayman »

Problem with commited relwtionship is when u see ur partner getting old, smelling bad or any bad happens it will cause pain emotionally.. so dont marry anyone... see sex as stress and dont masturbrate
...
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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StrivingforMonkhood
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by StrivingforMonkhood »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 4:29 pm Problem with commited relwtionship is when u see ur partner getting old, smelling bad or any bad happens it will cause pain emotionally.. so dont marry anyone... see sex as stress and dont masturbrate
...
This is correct, more or less, dear friend.

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MervT
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by MervT »

mario92 wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 1:45 am Namaste since i ended school in december 2017 i had tried to be celibate, but never succeed for a long time, at this time i think it is not wise to keep following that path. Problems with acne had arisen and also digestive problems, sleep problems and fatigue. I had tried asubha and meditation but i am still subject to desire as still watch facebook (and youtube and also have instagram due to bussiness issue) to counter atack disatisfaction and discontent, also everyday beautiful ladies enter my store, so im bombarded everyday. I also have problems with pornography, but i do my best to avoid using the phone. I want to ask some questions how do 5 precept practitioner deal with desire? Is taoist sex the only way to suceed as layman(like retaining seminal luquid and thus having good health)? My father tells me that i should look for a girlfriend, but social and economic conditions along the fear of getting sexual disease, having an unwanted pregnancy also arise in my mind, and also that woman can be very evil (from experience), or that you dont know if the other person is married (some can lie). Also, do desire diminish if i have girlfriend? Thanks I think one of the main problems is bad health.
I think i may be the best person to answer you on this.

Because i have the same problem.

I posted similar question to this previously.

My take in conclusion is this,

1. Sexual needs is one of the most powerful need a human can have. Sometime even more than hunger. Trust me on this, we will never be able to suppress or channel this energy which i think is all BS.

2. You will have to release in whatever way you can accept it. Be it getting laid or masturbating. While using pornography is another matter.

3. Please understand, meditation like Asubha are for monks or people whom are gearing for nirvana (for real). It is mostly not for layman. That is why the Buddha never taught Asubha meditation to layman (correct me if i'm wrong here). A layman's job is to keep the 5 precepts and live a good household life and in modern day's sense it can be satisfying both yourself and your partner. I know alot of people like to say how unwholesome sex is. But can you imagine if you don't satisfy your partner and yet talk about all these godly and holy things. Your partner will probably divorce you and be miserable if she's not in the same boat as you.

4. If you really want to achieve enlightenment, aim to be a monk. A monk's work is to remove lust (thought) from the Mind hence the whole sexuality is thoroughly removed from the root. A monk's life is also so much more conducive to do this. A monk usually live in a temple and such even women devotee will usually tone down in their dressing. In our normal society, women has all their rights to wear what they want, which being more sexy brings up their value. What alot people don't get it how hard it is to practise in the society. So don't force yourself against the tide.

5. Everyone has different sex drive. I know someone will tell you how you should be mindful.. no lust thoughts... and how it is okay to maybe masturbate once a month to clear the tension. But no one really know how sex drives can be so individually different. Myself for one, has such a high drive that it will begin to affect how i urinate if i do not clear it. I will not go into details here. And the effort to suppress the release is so tantamount to just doing it and moving on.

6. All the BS about nofap and taoist sex is just BS. I can go whole day about this but lets save it.
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StrivingforMonkhood
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by StrivingforMonkhood »

MervT wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 4:58 pm
mario92 wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 1:45 am Namaste since i ended school in december 2017 i had tried to be celibate, but never succeed for a long time, at this time i think it is not wise to keep following that path. Problems with acne had arisen and also digestive problems, sleep problems and fatigue. I had tried asubha and meditation but i am still subject to desire as still watch facebook (and youtube and also have instagram due to bussiness issue) to counter atack disatisfaction and discontent, also everyday beautiful ladies enter my store, so im bombarded everyday. I also have problems with pornography, but i do my best to avoid using the phone. I want to ask some questions how do 5 precept practitioner deal with desire? Is taoist sex the only way to suceed as layman(like retaining seminal luquid and thus having good health)? My father tells me that i should look for a girlfriend, but social and economic conditions along the fear of getting sexual disease, having an unwanted pregnancy also arise in my mind, and also that woman can be very evil (from experience), or that you dont know if the other person is married (some can lie). Also, do desire diminish if i have girlfriend? Thanks I think one of the main problems is bad health.
I think i may be the best person to answer you on this.

Because i have the same problem.

I posted similar question to this previously.

My take in conclusion is this,

1. Sexual needs is one of the most powerful need a human can have. Sometime even more than hunger. Trust me on this, we will never be able to suppress or channel this energy which i think is all BS.

2. You will have to release in whatever way you can accept it. Be it getting laid or masturbating. While using pornography is another matter.

3. Please understand, meditation like Asubha are for monks or people whom are gearing for nirvana (for real). It is mostly not for layman. That is why the Buddha never taught Asubha meditation to layman (correct me if i'm wrong here). A layman's job is to keep the 5 precepts and live a good household life and in modern day's sense it can be satisfying both yourself and your partner. I know alot of people like to say how unwholesome sex is. But can you imagine if you don't satisfy your partner and yet talk about all these godly and holy things. Your partner will probably divorce you and be miserable if she's not in the same boat as you.

4. If you really want to achieve enlightenment, aim to be a monk. A monk's work is to remove lust (thought) from the Mind hence the whole sexuality is thoroughly removed from the root. A monk's life is also so much more conducive to do this. A monk usually live in a temple and such even women devotee will usually tone down in their dressing. In our normal society, women has all their rights to wear what they want, which being more sexy brings up their value. What alot people don't get it how hard it is to practise in the society. So don't force yourself against the tide.

5. Everyone has different sex drive. I know someone will tell you how you should be mindful.. no lust thoughts... and how it is okay to maybe masturbate once a month to clear the tension. But no one really know how sex drives can be so individually different. Myself for one, has such a high drive that it will begin to affect how i urinate if i do not clear it. I will not go into details here. And the effort to suppress the release is so tantamount to just doing it and moving on.

6. All the BS about nofap and taoist sex is just BS. I can go whole day about this but lets save it.

Excellent post.


I think males trying to holy need to be realistic. Denying the way things "really are" is never helpful, but rather harmful.

I can easily be celibate, but I cannot fully stop masturbation at this point in my life. The energy that builds up is so strong.

Re-directing sexual energy -- I have a lot of doubts about all of that, as do you.

I agree: Aim to be a monk, if you want to remove sexual desire from the mind. It is the only way, in my mind, unless you become castrated.

Western cultures (Christian monasticism has died out, more or less, with Protestant ideals dominating + materialism) have such an aversion towards celibacy and men not having sex.

Peace and enlightenment :anjali:
May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness

We are already Buddha
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Tennok
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by Tennok »

Take delight, Nanda! Take delight, Nanda! I am your surety for gaining five hundred celestial dove-footed nymphs!
Is there any concrete practice, mentioned in the Suttas, that rewards bhikhu with such prize? :clap: Brahma Viharas, maybe?

Another question, is making love to the devas necessarily a carnal affair? Their bodies seem different, than human bodies. I think I've read somewhere, that they don't produce excrements, for example. Is it a worldly affair ?

But seriously, I thought I knew this story before, but I missed the part, where Buddha basicaly bribes poor Nanda with prospects of eternal harem. Hilarious. Sounds almost like those 72 "regrowing" virgins, in another popular religion...

As about the topic of sexual sufferies of youth...There is a saying, that young people suffer, becouse they wish to be pure and moral, and they can't. But the older people wish to be immoral and horny, and they can't, too. :tongue:

Lord Buddha came to his conclusions about sensual pleasures being anicca nad dukkha, after being married, seeding a son, and possibly enjoying his harem for many years...He didn't became a recluse as a teenager. I once spoke to a forrest monk in Sri Lanka, who told me, that age of thirty is good for rennounciation, when you know what Samsara is. And all those very young monks, put in robes by their pious parents, is a culture thing, not always so wise.

Be ascetic after you see and know more clearly, that sensual pleasures hurt, and don't last for long.
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DooDoot
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by DooDoot »

Tennok wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 5:07 am after being married, seeding a son, and possibly enjoying his harem for many years..
No.

His wife gave birth to a son after 12 years of marriage. Then, according to sutta (MN 26), in front his parents, he left home with them having tears in their eyes. The impression is Gotama did a deal with his father if he produced a son or heir he could leave home.

Since child Gotama entered jhana spontaneously at young age (MN 36), obviously he naturally had a very high consciousness thus his disposition towards sensuality would have been naturally low, as described in AN 3.38.
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Inhaleexhale
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by Inhaleexhale »

I don't have much to add, except for one of my favorite suttas regarding sexual activity, AN 4:159:

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN4_159.html

Be well friends :anjali:
BrokenBones
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by BrokenBones »

As regards all sexual activity... I've found that the older (and wiser) I got then the less obsessed I became until it was an effort to 'fabricate' the lust/desire.

Then a few years ago I started on a life long medication that I later found out can diminish the libido as a side effect.

So now, when a slight 'stirring' does occur; it would need some serious fabricating to get it to go anywhere... so I don't see the point.
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by GoWiththeflowavatar »

[quote=mario92 post_id=622968 time=1621475129 user_id=8276]
Namaste since i ended school in december 2017 i had tried to be celibate, but never succeed for a long time, at this time i think it is not wise to keep following that path. Problems with acne had arisen and also digestive problems, sleep problems and fatigue. I had tried asubha and meditation but i am still subject to desire as still watch facebook (and youtube and also have instagram due to bussiness issue) to counter atack disatisfaction and discontent, also everyday beautiful ladies enter my store, so im bombarded everyday. I also have problems with pornography, but i do my best to avoid using the phone. I want to ask some questions how do 5 precept practitioner deal with desire? Is taoist sex the only way to suceed as layman(like retaining seminal luquid and thus having good health)? My father tells me that i should look for a girlfriend, but social and economic conditions along the fear of getting sexual disease, having an unwanted pregnancy also arise in my mind, and also that woman can be very evil (from experience), or that you dont know if the other person is married (some can lie). Also, do desire diminish if i have girlfriend? Thanks I think one of the main problems is bad health.
[/quote]

This is the saddest and the most difficult thing for every person. The only way we can overcome desire is to arise and maintain wholesome states like the awakening factors and avoid and destroy the unwholesome states like the hindrances, that is why is it called right effort. You do arise some of the factors, but you are missing the rest which includes tranquility, concentration, and equanimity.

When you see, hear, touch, or smell and then a thought enters your mind, you have failed by not guarding your senses. For when we notice an object that arouses our lust, our tranquility, concentration, and equanimity is lost. So the first step always is to guard our senses for the sake of our tranquility, concentration, and equanimity (maintaining wholesome states and avoiding unwholesome states).

But what if the thought has already entered your mind, how should you rid of the lust? By applying energy towards your mindfulness and investigation (sexual diseases, attachment is scary, uncertainty, body disgust, etc), knowing that once you overcome this lust, joy will arise (arising wholesome states, and destroying unwholesome states).

It will be difficult and you may cause some transgressions, but in due time like Nanda, you can overcome it.
Inedible
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by Inedible »

It's like the advice not to wrestle in the mud with a pig. You both get messy and the pig likes it. You will never have a chance to get bored and lose interest if it is a perpetual struggle.
JC938
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Re: problem with masturbation

Post by JC938 »

There is a way to be free from lust. There is a way. You must put effort and try and commit. There is a way to be totally free from lust.
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