Meditation and Cannabis

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Crazy cloud »

Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:27 am Let me drop this quote from Ajahn Chah. I think this will help to put an end to this discussion as it comes from an Enlightened master.
Drugs can bring about meaningful experiences, but the one who takes a drug has not made causes for such effects. He has just temporarily altered nature, like injecting a monkey with hormones that send him shooting up a tree to pick coconuts. Such experiences may be true but not good or good but not true, whereas Dharma is always both good and true.

Ajahn Chah, Still Forest Pool
Wise words from a master. But there is more to say about experiences, and that is that if treated and understood correctly, they can place the experiencer on the path out of suffering. But if the experiencer lacks understanding and misunderstand experiences to be some kind of disease, and then let health care provide their treatments, he might find himself in deep trouble for the rest of his life.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Dharmasherab
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Dharmasherab »

You dont need any of these drugs to become Enlightened. If so then it would have mentioned about psychoactive substances and allowing them to be used. But the Buddha never mentioned supporting their use. If any he told not to use them and this is covered by the 5th Precept.
“When one does not understand death, life can be very confusing.” - Ajahn Chah
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Crazy cloud »

Dharmasherab wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:37 pm You dont need any of these drugs to become Enlightened. If so then it would have mentioned about psychoactive substances and allowing them to be used. But the Buddha never mentioned supporting their use. If any he told not to use them and this is covered by the 5th Precept.
What's needed to become enlightened does no one know, - if there were such people or teachers, then we all would be enlightened by now. So, thats your personal opinion. Buddha allowed and supported that monastics were provided with medicines, and in those days they relayed on nature own medicines. My guess is that amongst different kinds of those medicines, there would also be some that easily could be classified as psychoactive. And one more time: Fifth precept: Refrain from substances that cloud the mind, and make you lose mindfulness.
And btw, is there anything that one can digest that isn't in one form or another, psychoactive?
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Dharmasherab
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Dharmasherab »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:43 pm What's needed to become enlightened does no one know, - if there were such people or teachers, then we all would be enlightened by now. So, thats your personal opinion.
Such statements are typical of those that lack Saddha (Conviction). Part of following Buddhism is to accept that the Buddha's enlightenment was genuine. Saddha is not a personal opinion. Saddha is an important aspect of Buddhism.
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:43 pm Buddha allowed and supported that monastics were provided with medicines, and in those days they relayed on nature own medicines. My guess is that amongst different kinds of those medicines, there would also be some that easily could be classified as psychoactive.


Drugs used for recreational purposes does not include medicines as part of monastic requisites. In the monastery that I am living, we are told not to take any intoxicants including drugs for recreational purposes. You have mistaken therapeutic use of medicines for recreational purposes.
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:43 pm And one more time: Fifth precept: Refrain from substances that cloud the mind, and make you lose mindfulness.
That is not a complete translation of the precept. A better rendering for 'Pamada' is heedlessness and it encompasses more nuances than just mindfulness. I asked one of the senior Ajahns in this monastery and he said the 5th Precept is to refrain from all intoxicants. I knew the meaning in Pali was to imply abstinence from intoxicants (and not refrain from becoming intoxicated) but I also wanted to have an Ajahn confirm that.
“When one does not understand death, life can be very confusing.” - Ajahn Chah
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Crazy cloud »

The word is "drugs", and the choice everybody has is to use any drug that suits the purpose we are meant for, which is to reach the end of suffering. One can choose to obey some formal, organised sect, guru or rely on one's abilities to mindfully tune ones own being with precisely what fits the overall purpose. And you seem to be stuck on a western mindset where it's all about recreation, and that has nothing to do with my concerns or intentions.

Saddha is found in the heart, not in the conceptual mind.
I don't think we have the same understanding of what mindfulness is, which in my way of practice, rules out heedlessness.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by JamesTheGiant »

I'm not sure if it's relevant, but anyone using cannabis at any of the 10 or so monasteries I've stayed at (Thai, Sri Lankan, and Cambodian monasteries), would immediately be asked to leave.
They have almost zero tolerance for that.
Maybe there's a place for cannabis in Buddhism, but it's surely not within Theravada Buddhism.
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Crazy cloud »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:17 am I'm not sure if it's relevant, but anyone using cannabis at any of the 10 or so monasteries I've stayed at (Thai, Sri Lankan, and Cambodian monasteries), would immediately be asked to leave.
They have almost zero tolerance for that.
Maybe there's a place for cannabis in Buddhism, but it's surely not within Theravada Buddhism.
What would happen if a lay disciple offered CBD oil (no THC) to the monastics?
And what about a monastic diagnosed with ADD/ADHD, - would it not be possible for that individual to take medicine for a condition like that?
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
chrismc
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by chrismc »

smoking weed interferes with proper REM sleep.

Interfering with proper REM sleep has big consequences, it clouds the mind, makes one lethargic and dull throughout the day.

I don't see how marijuana can be a part of a life devoted to skillful practice. peace,
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Crazy cloud »

chrismc wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:02 pm smoking weed interferes with proper REM sleep.

Interfering with proper REM sleep has big consequences, it clouds the mind, makes one lethargic and dull throughout the day.

I don't see how marijuana can be a part of a life devoted to skillful practice. peace,
Any kind of medication must be used skilfully, and that means it should only be used when necessary for retaining good health and then be let go of. Just because you don't need some kind of medicine, shouldn't prevent others from using it skillfully.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
may.all.bliss
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by may.all.bliss »

I think most people against any substances have not tried them, or have a superficial view on them, they can be helpful no doubt in my experience, and not necessarily addictive, and potentially helpful for meditation.
It's not indulging in senses, per se, just as walking towards a cave to meditate isn't, it's a means to an end.
And knowing Jhana by experience with a stimulant, can make it easier to access it later also
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Dhamma Chameleon
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Dhamma Chameleon »

Let's say cannabis is helpful to your meditation. How, when and why do you make the transition to meditating without cannabis? Do you ever? What do you really know about meditation, as opposed to meditation under the influence of cannabis? Which did the Buddha teach?
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Crazy cloud »

If there hs been real insights, then these will naturally incline one's being towards purification. Cannabis and other plant medicines have for several thousand years been used to make a connection to heaven, but then in a strictly ceremonial manner, and not as in our times where any kind of substance is being used for pleasure and numbing out the senses.

There is skilful use, and there is unskillful use.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
may.all.bliss
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by may.all.bliss »

Dhamma Chameleon wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:23 pm Let's say cannabis is helpful to your meditation. How, when and why do you make the transition to meditating without cannabis? Do you ever? What do you really know about meditation, as opposed to meditation under the influence of cannabis? Which did the Buddha teach?
For me, psychedelics and weed is what got me interested in meditation.
These things tend to not be like alcohol at all, of numbing yourself, causing heedlessness, but can be making you more aware, opening you up, confronting you or bringing insight and expansion, and also reveal issues like anxiety, or reveal insight and peace.
I remember seeing for the first time as a teenager how all my friends were quite insecure at the time, I really thought I was the only, but somehow being high I suddenly saw how I wasn't alone in that, that was a very cool experience.

I also felt like not doing it again after an intense high, you need time to integrate, and after I was already meditating without, no need to do it all the time.
Now I am at a point, where 'unfortunately' or better said fortunately, though I liked, it most often the time, doesn't do anything anymore for me, meditation practice/sleep yoga, is doing enough already.

It can still have some effect, and I am sure also other psychedelics can have effect, but to be honest, I am somewhat afraid of them, they can be so freaking intense, and weird, rather stick to my regular practice, which also works, especially staying awake or meditating before and during sleep can produce similar effects.

.. of course there also isn't really anything 'wrong' with just recreational use, albeit more useless, and potentially addictive for the ... minds.
But it's a rather harmless substance, unlike alcohol.
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Gwi
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Gwi »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:44 pm
bodom wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:13 pm
Lately the best meditation I have had by far has been while doing walking meditation at night, outdoors, using AUM as a mantra every eighth step, after consuming approximately one tenth of a gram of relatively potent cannabis.
:thinking:

:anjali:
Our way of using ancient plant medicine to get stoned out of the senses is just idiotic. The way it was meant to be used was to connect to heaven, and gain insight into the mystery of being. So, his micro-dosing of cannabis is in accordance with today's scientific research about how psychedelics can be of use and cure for our profoundly sick societies.

And I doubt that cannabis in these small doses can or will lead to heedlessness ...

:anjali:



The fourth precept is to avoid: surā-meraya-majjå

Surā: liquor
Merayå: Alcohol fermentation
(With alcohol or zero alcohol)
Mejjå: Intoxicating substance (drugs)





People who say drugs can help meditation,
That's a perverted ascetic view!

In the time of The Buddhå,
There were many ascetics
of the heretical sect,
Who were strange.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
may.all.bliss
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by may.all.bliss »

He also said multiple times to test his words and don't go by mere scripture, or by mere pondering.

Are these plants mere intoxication, leading to heedlessness, or not?

I beg the differ, but anyone who hasn't tried wouldn't be able to know.

But they are not needed, same result can be achieved without.

edit: the first 2 sites I found refer to the 5th precept as pertaining to alcohol;
https://www.insightmeditationcenter.org ... unciation/
https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/ques ... 5-precepts
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