Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:53 am
Again you are conflating the application with the means. You can use psychedelics to delight in the external senses or you can use them to go deeper into the mind.
I have posted reports of use in this way which you have ignored and are clearly nothing to do with chasing sense desire but are aligned with some types of meditative goals.
My argument is that using acid is itself already delighting in sense experience. Or, in other words, if you practiced sense restraint you wouldn't give into using acid. Based on the mind and the idea of using acid, mind consciousness arises. The meeting of 3 is contact. Sense restraint stops there. Pursuing sense desire is intending towards that idea because of it's attractive signs and features. Next comes the action, then the experience and then delight in it. Now, delight in feelings/experience is clinging. With clinging as condition...
No, there is no evidence he rejected or endorsed the practice.
I can't see him talking openly on their use though even if it could be beneficial for some due to probably the image it fostered amongst laity.
The Jhānas and the formless attainments were well known and practiced by other ascetics as part of their spiritual path. The Buddha adopted these practices into his own system as he saw that they can be used as part of the path to awakening. Mindfulness and indeed the 5 spiritual faculties were also know by other ascetics and used by them, as were the 4 brahmavihārās. The Buddha also adopted all of these practices as part of his teachings, as they too were useful for liberation. Now ingesting drugs for spiritual insights wasn't unknown at the time. Brahmins used to drink soma as part of their spiritual practices. That the Buddha did not adopt this practice is telling, and it puts it alongside other practices the Buddha rejected such as extreme asceticism or ritual sacrifice. It's not like the laity would be horrified if the Buddha and his followers used drugs either. No doubt the laity knew that the Brahmins were ingesting soma for their practices. What we find instead then is the Buddha teaching that the basic moral code a Buddhist can live by involves not ingesting alcohol or intoxicating substances. If a Buddhist is aiming for nibbāna then they should also practice mindfulness, clear comprehension and sense restraint. None of that allows for taking any kind of drug, unless its for medical reasons. In order to awaken you have to see dhammas as they arise and fall clearly, you have to see their conditionality clearly. You can't do that when your mind is distorted by drugs. It's an illusion of insight, nothing more.
Certainly though if he was against them outright he could have included injunctions saying it was wrong rather than relying on people having to stretch the fifth precept against alcohol,
Based on this argument it's ok for Buddhists to use cocaine.
Anyway I have my views based on much experience and they are no hindrance to me but a great benefit on the occasions they are used, which is usually only every few months or years.
There is another aspect to this. As a Buddhist you should be obeying the law of the land, so if said drugs are illegal where you are then you should not be using them. The Buddha was very keen on social stability and on not getting into trouble with the authorities, as long as the laws do not force one to violate Dhammic principles.