non-visual sign?

[no mike]

I've been focusing on breath, and Buddho, patiently under the impression that at some point I would see a visual sign. For about two and half years now. I have also tried Ajaan Lee's Method 1 and Method 2 recently. Sometimes I just forget about the sign and just focus on breath, or just observe the mind. Recently I read in a few different books that the sign doesn't have to be visual, that some people have body or breath sensations for signs. If this is correct, than maybe that fits me. I am aware of certain sensations of a tingling energy associated with the breath, which I can move to different parts of my body. Could this be a training sign or used as a training sign? What's a training sign?

Not sure where to go from here, but I feel connected with forest Dhamma. I plan to make a trip this summer to see a meditation teacher, I hope to get some individualized direction.

Thanks

[SarathW]

This may some help:

What is the theme of the mind?

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... it=nimitta" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[paul]

The classic description of the development of the sign, from the learning sign onwards, using a kasina as subject and which must be applied to one's own subject and experience, can be found at Visuddhimagga IV 27-30.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... on2011.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mikenz66]

This might be helpful:
Advice on tactile "nimittas", and how best to use them?
Suttas mentioning tranquility and concentration nimittas


Mike

[no mike]

Thank you, for the references

I am looking for a mobi file version of Visuddhimagga (my conversion from pdf is messy).

My next question:

Is the skill (and point) of developing a training sign: something we use to help establish a meditative state, which we next connect to a given theme or chosen contemplation subject? I can see the benefits of that for both day-to-day investigations, building mindfulness, etc., as well as for developing concentration while seated. Especially if the training sign can be generated at will?

I am grateful for feedback,

Mike

[Dhammanando]

I am looking for a mobi file version of Visuddhimagga (my conversion from pdf is messy).

Here:

http://www.4shared.com/file/TDUsiK0R/vism.html

[mikenz66]

Is the skill (and point) of developing a training sign: something we use to help establish a meditative state, which we next connect to a given theme or chosen contemplation subject? I can see the benefits of that for both day-to-day investigations, building mindfulness, etc., as well as for developing concentration while seated. Especially if the training sign can be generated at will?

I don't have a lot of experience with developing really deep concentration, so I tend to treat such things as simply showing that I've generated some level of concentration, which, as you say is helpful for a variety of reasons.

I'd be wary, however, of trying to "generate at will". My impression is that these are things that arise automatically when the conditions are in place.


Mike