non-visual sign?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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no mike
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non-visual sign?

Post by no mike »

I've been focusing on breath, and Buddho, patiently under the impression that at some point I would see a visual sign. For about two and half years now. I have also tried Ajaan Lee's Method 1 and Method 2 recently. Sometimes I just forget about the sign and just focus on breath, or just observe the mind. Recently I read in a few different books that the sign doesn't have to be visual, that some people have body or breath sensations for signs. If this is correct, than maybe that fits me. I am aware of certain sensations of a tingling energy associated with the breath, which I can move to different parts of my body. Could this be a training sign or used as a training sign? What's a training sign?

Not sure where to go from here, but I feel connected with forest Dhamma. I plan to make a trip this summer to see a meditation teacher, I hope to get some individualized direction.

Thanks :)
SarathW
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Re: non-visual sign?

Post by SarathW »

This may some help:

What is the theme of the mind?

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... it=nimitta" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
paul
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Re: non-visual sign?

Post by paul »

The classic description of the development of the sign, from the learning sign onwards, using a kasina as subject and which must be applied to one's own subject and experience, can be found at Visuddhimagga IV 27-30.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... on2011.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by paul on Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mikenz66
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Re: non-visual sign?

Post by mikenz66 »

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no mike
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Re: non-visual sign?

Post by no mike »

Thank you, for the references :)

I am looking for a mobi file version of Visuddhimagga (my conversion from pdf is messy).

My next question:

Is the skill (and point) of developing a training sign: something we use to help establish a meditative state, which we next connect to a given theme or chosen contemplation subject? I can see the benefits of that for both day-to-day investigations, building mindfulness, etc., as well as for developing concentration while seated. Especially if the training sign can be generated at will?

I am grateful for feedback,

Mike
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Dhammanando
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Re: non-visual sign?

Post by Dhammanando »

no mike wrote:I am looking for a mobi file version of Visuddhimagga (my conversion from pdf is messy).
Here:

http://www.4shared.com/file/TDUsiK0R/vism.html
Anabhirati kho, āvuso, imasmiṃ dhammavinaye dukkhā, abhirati sukhā.

“To not delight in this dhammavinaya, friend, is painful; to delight in it is bliss.”
(Sukhasutta, AN 10:66)
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mikenz66
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Re: non-visual sign?

Post by mikenz66 »

no mike wrote: Is the skill (and point) of developing a training sign: something we use to help establish a meditative state, which we next connect to a given theme or chosen contemplation subject? I can see the benefits of that for both day-to-day investigations, building mindfulness, etc., as well as for developing concentration while seated. Especially if the training sign can be generated at will?
I don't have a lot of experience with developing really deep concentration, so I tend to treat such things as simply showing that I've generated some level of concentration, which, as you say is helpful for a variety of reasons.

I'd be wary, however, of trying to "generate at will". My impression is that these are things that arise automatically when the conditions are in place.

:anjali:
Mike
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