I feel my breath is shallow in Anapanasathi

[331crz]

Hi all!

When I do vipassana meditation -Anapanasathi, I feel shortness of breath when I calm down for around 12 minutes. I tried both inflation/ deflation on the stomach and noticing breath coming in and out at the tip of the nose. When this stage approaches I feel a bit confused, to be honest. And then when I try to neglect the above cause; I feel like I have to start it all over again. [In other words, I feel the need for breathe/ exhale longer which breaks the whole process]

In a way I'm happy that I could surpass my body aches for 10 mins

Please help me out on this- I have been struggling with this for the longest time.

Theruwan Saranai!

[santa100]

I feel like I have to start it all over again. [In other words, I feel the need for breathe/ exhale longer which breaks the whole process

The biggest no-no is forcing your breathing. Breathe naturally. Following your breaths, not Forcing it. Remember the first Anapanasti's tetrad about following the breath naturally: if breathing in/out long, s/he discerns: "I am breathing in/out long"; If breathing in/out short, s/he discerns: "I am breathing in/out short". It didn't tell you to force your breaths to be long or short.

[JohnK]

...I feel shortness of breath...

Perhaps you could clarify what you mean here.
The phrase is often used to describe a condition that arises where one is gasping for air after exertion -- feeling that they are not getting enough air and feeling a bit panicky.
Or the phrase might just mean that the breaths have become short in duration and perhaps shallow.
How are you using the phrase?

[331crz]

I feel like I have to start it all over again. [In other words, I feel the need for breathe/ exhale longer which breaks the whole process

The biggest no-no is forcing your breathing. Breathe naturally. Following your breaths, not Forcing it. Remember the first Anapanasti's tetrad about following the breath naturally: if breathing in/out long, s/he discerns: "I am breathing in/out long"; If breathing in/out short, s/he discerns: "I am breathing in/out short". It didn't tell you to force your breaths to be long or short.

Hi thanks for the response!

This is the only detail I forgot to mention. I actually didn't aim for intentional breathing. This is where I became so confused.

[331crz]

...I feel shortness of breath...

Perhaps you could clarify what you mean here.
The phrase is often used to describe a condition that arises where one is gasping for air after exertion -- feeling that they are not getting enough air and feeling a bit panicky.
Or the phrase might just mean that the breaths have become short in duration and perhaps shallow.
How are you using the phrase?

Yes, I'm sorry. It would more likely be that breathing has become more shallow that I get this feeling of breathing fully again. Which kind of gives me a feeling that this doesn't support me to progress the anapanasathi. Please correct me if im wrong. Thanks!

Edit: Ill try to edit the heading of the thread.

[JohnK]

Typically, as mentioned, instructions are to breathe naturally -- and to be cognizant of it, whatever it is. So, one would not react to short or shallow by forcing longer or deeper, or the other way around. An exception would be, if shallow breathing is contributing to drowsiness, one could intentionally breathe more deeply.

Just to let you know, there is a less typical approach, taught by Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo. It is to be more intentional with the breath. The idea is to find a way of breathing that leads to a sense of comfort. So it could be shallow/deep, long/short, heavy/light -- one experiments to find what works best in the moment.
I was just reading this from Ajaan Lee last night [emphasis added]:

For discernment to arise, you have to be observant as you keep track of the breath and to gain a sense of how to adjust and improve it so that it's well-proportioned throughout the body -- to the point where it flows evenly without faltering, so that it's comfortable in slow and out slow, in fast and out fast, long, short, heavy or refined. Get so that both the in-breath and the out-breath are comfortable no matter what way you breathe -- so that, no matter when, you immediately feel a sense of ease the moment you focus on the breath. When you can do this, physical results will appear: a sense of ease and lightness, open and spacious.

From: https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Inner ... n0013.html

[Sam Vara]

To follow JohnK's point about the Ajahn Lee method of controlling the breath (Ajahn Thanissaro recommends it too) there are other methods which control the breath. I meditated for many years with monks and lay meditation teachers who were adamant that the breath should not under any circumstances be controlled, but more recently took up a practice which stresses control of the length of breath. It's as good as any I've tried, certainly as far as reliability/consistency of results. It certainly seems in line with the suttas, including the Anapanasati Sutta.

So - other things being equal, of course - shallow breathing is not detrimental to practice, especially if that's what your body feels comfortable with. The best thing to do is to judge it by results. I personally find that long breathing is calming and soporific, whereas short breathing leads to the mind being "sharper" and more sensitive, but only if it has already settled somewhat. It's difficult for me to sit down and start or move quickly to short breaths, without the mind wandering.

[331crz]

Typically, as mentioned, instructions are to breathe naturally -- and to be cognizant of it, whatever it is. So, one would not react to short or shallow by forcing longer or deeper, or the other way around. An exception would be, if shallow breathing is contributing to drowsiness, one could intentionally breathe more deeply.

Just to let you know, there is a less typical approach, taught by Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo. It is to be more intentional with the breath. The idea is to find a way of breathing that leads to a sense of comfort. So it could be shallow/deep, long/short, heavy/light -- one experiments to find what works best in the moment.
I was just reading this from Ajaan Lee last night [emphasis added]:

For discernment to arise, you have to be observant as you keep track of the breath and to gain a sense of how to adjust and improve it so that it's well-proportioned throughout the body -- to the point where it flows evenly without faltering, so that it's comfortable in slow and out slow, in fast and out fast, long, short, heavy or refined. Get so that both the in-breath and the out-breath are comfortable no matter what way you breathe -- so that, no matter when, you immediately feel a sense of ease the moment you focus on the breath. When you can do this, physical results will appear: a sense of ease and lightness, open and spacious.

From: https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Inner ... n0013.html

Thank you! I will try maintaining my awareness till I jump that hurdle

So - other things being equal, of course - shallow breathing is not detrimental to practice, especially if that's what your body feels comfortable with. The best thing to do is to judge it by results. I personally find that long breathing is calming and soporific, whereas short breathing leads to the mind being "sharper" and more sensitive, but only if it has already settled somewhat. It's difficult for me to sit down and start or move quickly to short breaths, without the mind wandering.

Thank you! yes thats true. We wouldnt know where we are on our progress. Only thing we can do is move forward. Also I was told walking meditation before sitting meditation does provide better results. Maybe it would work on your case

[DooDoot]

When this stage approaches I feel a bit confused

The mind can become confused if it cannot feel/discern the breath clearly.

Place some fingers under your nose so you can feel the out-breath striking your fingers.

Maybe place your other hand on your stomach, to help be aware of the end of the in-breath and start of the out-breathe.

[Spiny Norman]

Hi all!

When I do vipassana meditation -Anapanasathi, I feel shortness of breath when I calm down for around 12 minutes. I tried both inflation/ deflation on the stomach and noticing breath coming in and out at the tip of the nose. When this stage approaches I feel a bit confused, to be honest. And then when I try to neglect the above cause; I feel like I have to start it all over again. [In other words, I feel the need for breathe/ exhale longer which breaks the whole process]

In a way I'm happy that I could surpass my body aches for 10 mins

Please help me out on this- I have been struggling with this for the longest time.

Theruwan Saranai!

Concentrating attention on the breath too hard can make it seem unnatural and forced. Just develop a relaxed awareness, a sort of laid-back attention.
If your breath seems shallow, that's fine, just notice it. No big thing. Acceptance is the key.

[331crz]

Concentrating attention on the breath too hard can make it seem unnatural and forced. Just develop a relaxed awareness, a sort of laid-back attention.
If your breath seems shallow, that's fine, just notice it. No big thing. Acceptance is the key.

Thank you! I shall keep that in mind. I tried once again yesterday- that same troublesome state seems to have lessened. I guess I'll keep working on that

When this stage approaches I feel a bit confused

The mind can become confused if it cannot feel/discern the breath clearly.

Place some fingers under your nose so you can feel the out-breath striking your fingers.

Maybe place your other hand on your stomach, to help be aware of the end of the in-breath and start of the out-breathe.

Thank you! I will look to this too

[sentinel]

Hi all!

When I do vipassana meditation -Anapanasathi, I feel shortness of breath when I calm down for around 12 minutes. I tried both inflation/ deflation on the stomach and noticing breath coming in and out at the tip of the nose. When this stage approaches I feel a bit confused, to be honest. And then when I try to neglect the above cause; I feel like I have to start it all over again. [In other words, I feel the need for breathe/ exhale longer which breaks the whole process]

In a way I'm happy that I could surpass my body aches for 10 mins

Please help me out on this- I have been struggling with this for the longest time.

Theruwan Saranai!

Hi i read that to develop anapana and achieve samadhi one has certain specific breath counting of short and long .