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Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:58 am
by mgm2010
In the system we are following, there is a mention of five major hindrances in the spiritual journey
1. Kama - Sexual Passion
2. Krodha - Anger
3. Lobh - Greed
4. Moha - Attachment
5. Ahankar - Ego

2. While the lower four are comparatively under subjugation, No 1 is proving to be very very tough and is a MAJOR hindrance , as far as I am concerned. Similar may be the case with other similarly placed house holders.
3. Our system also makes it clear that it is not the actual act that "binds" but the "longing" for it.
4. The methods prescribed in our system are prayers and contemplation on the subject.
5. What do the buddhist scriptures have to say in this regard ??

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:07 am
by SteRo
These are the hindrances:

sensual desire (kamacchanda)
ill-will (vyapada)
sloth and drowsiness (thina-middha)
restlessness and worry (uddhacca-kukkucca)
doubt (vicikiccha)

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 am
by confusedlayman
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:07 am These are the hindrances:

sensual desire (kamacchanda)
ill-will (vyapada)
sloth and drowsiness (thina-middha)
restlessness and worry (uddhacca-kukkucca)
doubt (vicikiccha)
how do you get rid of them in meditation? your own personal method that worked for you?

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:15 am
by SteRo
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 am
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:07 am These are the hindrances:

sensual desire (kamacchanda)
ill-will (vyapada)
sloth and drowsiness (thina-middha)
restlessness and worry (uddhacca-kukkucca)
doubt (vicikiccha)
how do you get rid of them in meditation? your own personal method that worked for you?
You have to get rid of them in stages - which is what the suttas teach implicitly through getting into concentration gradually - or they are dissolved at one blow.

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:17 am
by confusedlayman
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:15 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 am
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:07 am These are the hindrances:

sensual desire (kamacchanda)
ill-will (vyapada)
sloth and drowsiness (thina-middha)
restlessness and worry (uddhacca-kukkucca)
doubt (vicikiccha)
how do you get rid of them in meditation? your own personal method that worked for you?
You have to get rid of them in stages - which is what the suttas teach implicitly through getting into concentration gradually - or they are dissolved at one blow.
how to dissolve them in one blow? if I want to enter first jhana in 10 min or so?

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:21 am
by Sam Vara
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 am
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:07 am These are the hindrances:

sensual desire (kamacchanda)
ill-will (vyapada)
sloth and drowsiness (thina-middha)
restlessness and worry (uddhacca-kukkucca)
doubt (vicikiccha)
how do you get rid of them in meditation? your own personal method that worked for you?
The Wikipedia page on the hindrances has some traditional antidotes listed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_hind ... 0kindness.

There is also this excellent book by Ajahn Thiradhammo, which can be downloaded for free:
https://forestsangha.org/teachings/book ... ge=English

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:23 am
by SteRo
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:17 am
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:15 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 am

how do you get rid of them in meditation? your own personal method that worked for you?
You have to get rid of them in stages - which is what the suttas teach implicitly through getting into concentration gradually - or they are dissolved at one blow.
how to dissolve them in one blow? if I want to enter first jhana in 10 min or so?
Since this is the Theravada section one should focus on what suttas say.
The Blessed One said: "Now what, monks, is noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions? Any singleness of mind equipped with these seven factors — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, & right mindfulness — is called noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

So noble right concentration has supports & requisite conditions. And these supports & requisite conditions have to be accumulated which is why noble right concentration is a gradual attainment and its hindrances are gotten rid of in stages.

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:26 am
by Sam Vara
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:17 am
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:15 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 am

how do you get rid of them in meditation? your own personal method that worked for you?
You have to get rid of them in stages - which is what the suttas teach implicitly through getting into concentration gradually - or they are dissolved at one blow.
how to dissolve them in one blow? if I want to enter first jhana in 10 min or so?
Alas, this is probably impossible for most of us. AN 10.61 recommends perfect sīla as a way of eroding the hindrances. That takes a great deal of time and effort.

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:31 am
by confusedlayman
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:23 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:17 am
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:15 am

You have to get rid of them in stages - which is what the suttas teach implicitly through getting into concentration gradually - or they are dissolved at one blow.
how to dissolve them in one blow? if I want to enter first jhana in 10 min or so?
Since this is the Theravada section one should focus on what suttas say.
The Blessed One said: "Now what, monks, is noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions? Any singleness of mind equipped with these seven factors — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, & right mindfulness — is called noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

So noble right concentration has supports & requisite conditions. And these supports & requisite conditions have to be accumulated which is why noble right concentration is a gradual attainment and its hindrances are gotten rid of in stages.
tell non theraveda method also as you are indicating only to me who specifically asks. by the way as longs as it works it is valid. there is no strict definition that only theraveda use only certain techniques like that.. buddhism is freestyle

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:32 am
by SteRo
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:31 am tell non theraveda method also as you are indicating only to me who specifically asks.
'Telling method' belongs to teachers. According to suttas Gotama is teacher.

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:41 am
by confusedlayman
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:32 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:31 am tell non theraveda method also as you are indicating only to me who specifically asks.
'Telling method' belongs to teachers. According to suttas Gotama is teacher.
as a buddhist u can also say as u speak from persobal exp

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:30 pm
by befriend
Simply being mindful of the hindrances is a method. Or also for sensual desire contemplating impermanence of the object of desire. loving kindness for ill will, if I'll will is very strong I will do something helpful for others with the body for a few hours. For sloth and torpor one can rub their limbs and or look at a starry night sky or imagine a bright light in the head or do walking meditation. Worry can be dealt with by listening to sounds as a meditation object. Doubt is best dealt with by simply recognizing this state as being doubt.

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:11 pm
by DooDoot
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:15 am You have to get rid of them in stages - which is what the suttas teach implicitly through getting into concentration gradually - or they are dissolved at one blow.
Again, you appear to be talking backwards again. Hindrances are removed for concentration. Concentration does not remove hindrances, apart from very subtle hindrances. Your idea is similar to the idea a group of people can kill, steal & lie in order to create a Holy Land.
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:32 am According to suttas Gotama is teacher.
According to suttas, such as MN 19, Gotama removed hindrances before concentration.

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:16 pm
by DooDoot
mgm2010 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:58 am 3. Our system also makes it clear that it is not the actual act that "binds" but the "longing" for it.
It appears the act cannot occur without longing for it.
mgm2010 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:58 am5. What do the buddhist scriptures have to say in this regard ??
Refer to MN 19 & SN 35.127.

Best wishes

Re: Hindrances in meditation

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:45 pm
by SteRo
DooDoot wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:11 pm
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:15 am You have to get rid of them in stages - which is what the suttas teach implicitly through getting into concentration gradually - or they are dissolved at one blow.
Again, you appear to be talking backwards again. Hindrances are removed for concentration. Concentration does not remove hindrances, apart from very subtle hindrances. Your idea is similar to the idea a group of people can kill, steal & lie in order to create a Holy Land.
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:32 am According to suttas Gotama is teacher.
According to suttas, such as MN 19, Gotama removed hindrances before concentration.
You are misconstruing what has been said:
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:23 am
The Blessed One said: "Now what, monks, is noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions? Any singleness of mind equipped with these seven factors — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, & right mindfulness — is called noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

So noble right concentration has supports & requisite conditions. And these supports & requisite conditions have to be accumulated which is why noble right concentration is a gradual attainment and its hindrances are gotten rid of in stages.