Theravadan Shikantaza?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Quantum Foam
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Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by Quantum Foam »

Is there a school in Theravada that teaches a type of meditation similar to Shikantaza as taught by Dogen Zenji? Not his Theoretical (Mahayana) conception of the Dhamma. It's a meditation without any object. Sitting upright, not concentrating on breath or feelings or anything but just being at the moment, noticing something quite naturally, such as itching on the nose, noises, feelings (joy, fear, boredom..) and letting go of it again and not paying any attention to it. Not illuminating something like a laser pointer to breath or feelings, but illuminating the whole thing like a spotlight. Because taking the moment as it is without judging and simply letting go of thoughts as soon as you notice that you are entangled again.

Of course, you also have an anchor. This is the attitude as soon as you get lost in thought, but then you return to the moment, in my case often a wide and broad consciousness of the whole, difficult to describe in words, I stare at the wall with half-closed eyes and am simply present, you could almost say the wall and the attitude are my anchor when I'm spacing out. To want to reach this selfless no-state seemed to me to be the greatest gateway to samadhi. Unfortunately, I have problems with the Mahayana view of the Buddha-Dhamma and want to stay as close as possible to the original. If I'm not mistaken, the Thai forest tradition is pretty close to Shikantaza as Dogen thought. Or? Thank you all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shikantaza
Last edited by Quantum Foam on Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by befriend »

Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by befriend »

Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Quantum Foam
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by Quantum Foam »


Many Thanks! Do you have any more? Are there Dhamma Talks from Ajahns on Youtube?
And what would also be important, whether there are similarities in Suttapitaka to Shikantaza?

Thanks again for your effort!
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by befriend »

Ajahn amaro talks about nibbana on YouTube called we need to talk about nibbana
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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mikenz66
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by mikenz66 »

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DooDoot
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by DooDoot »

And what is the faculty of concentration? There is the case where a monk, a disciple of the noble ones, making it his object to let go, attains concentration, attains singleness of mind.

SN 48.10 - Indriya-Vibhanga Sutta
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by befriend »

It's the mediation style Ajahn amaro has been practicing for a while
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by Crazy cloud »

Quantum Foam wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:51 am If I'm not mistaken, the Thai forest tradition is pretty close to Shikantaza as Dogen thought.
I've been practicing for 8 years following the teachings and instructions from Ajahn's in the Thai forest tradition, and what you mention here sounds familiar to the "method" of being the knowing, or dissolve into the subject of being, or that which knows.
To me it's actually not a method, it's a letting go of all methods - stop trying to meditate, because consciousness "is meditation".

Here's a podcast from one of my teachers: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A ... PlV3LoXg0c
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

The practise of bare awareness is taught in the Mahāsi Tradition.
A Discourse on the Mālukyaputta Sutta wrote:“Mālukyaputta! As phenomena are seen, heard, sensed, or known, just let them be as they are seen, heard, thought of, or known at that moment. When you see, you just see it; when you hear, you just hear it; when you sense, you just sense it; and when you know, you just know it.”
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Caodemarte
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by Caodemarte »

Ajahn Chan had Soto teacher Shunryiu Suzuki’s “Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind” translated into Thai and would pass it out to visitors as an introduction to meditation. His talks and advice on meditation sound very similar to Soto shikantaza. The superficial forms are different, but both methods are about the dropping of superficial forms.
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Quantum Foam
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by Quantum Foam »

Thank you all for your advice. I found a wonderful book by Ajahn Amaro that wonderfully describes this "method of no method". With him you start at the beginning of the meditation with mindfulness of your body, after a while then anapanasati and finally when you are collected enough, you just let go and just sit there and let go. Wonderful, plus a Theravada background! I wish I had a group like that in town.

(I can't do much with Mahasi, but thanks for your advice)
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Quantum Foam wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:01 am Thank you all for your advice. I found a wonderful book by Ajahn Amaro that wonderfully describes this "method of no method". With him you start at the beginning of the meditation with mindfulness of your body, after a while then anapanasati and finally when you are collected enough, you just let go and just sit there and let go. Wonderful, plus a Theravada background! I wish I had a group like that in town.

(I can't do much with Mahasi, but thanks for your advice)
Which book is that?
Saññāvirattassa na santi ganthā,
Paññāvimuttassa na santi mohā;
Saññañca diṭṭhiñca ye aggahesuṃ,
Te ghaṭṭayantā vicaranti loke”ti.


“For one detached from perception, there exist no ties,
for one by wisdom freed, no delusions are there,
but those who have grasped perceptions and views,
they wander the world stirring up strife."


Māgaṇḍiya Sutta
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Quantum Foam
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by Quantum Foam »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:28 am
Quantum Foam wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:01 am Thank you all for your advice. I found a wonderful book by Ajahn Amaro that wonderfully describes this "method of no method". With him you start at the beginning of the meditation with mindfulness of your body, after a while then anapanasati and finally when you are collected enough, you just let go and just sit there and let go. Wonderful, plus a Theravada background! I wish I had a group like that in town.

(I can't do much with Mahasi, but thanks for your advice)
Which book is that?
https://www.amaravati.org/dhamma-books/ ... editation/

:hug:
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Theravadan Shikantaza?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Quantum Foam wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:54 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:28 am
Quantum Foam wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:01 am Thank you all for your advice. I found a wonderful book by Ajahn Amaro that wonderfully describes this "method of no method". With him you start at the beginning of the meditation with mindfulness of your body, after a while then anapanasati and finally when you are collected enough, you just let go and just sit there and let go. Wonderful, plus a Theravada background! I wish I had a group like that in town.

(I can't do much with Mahasi, but thanks for your advice)
Which book is that?
https://www.amaravati.org/dhamma-books/ ... editation/

:hug:
Ah yes, I remember that one.
Saññāvirattassa na santi ganthā,
Paññāvimuttassa na santi mohā;
Saññañca diṭṭhiñca ye aggahesuṃ,
Te ghaṭṭayantā vicaranti loke”ti.


“For one detached from perception, there exist no ties,
for one by wisdom freed, no delusions are there,
but those who have grasped perceptions and views,
they wander the world stirring up strife."


Māgaṇḍiya Sutta
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