Take off your spectacles

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
johnsmitty wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:22 pm Is it up to 2 masks yet? Fauci said you need 2 masks recently, didn't he? Lol. I can't imagine people are even within six feet of each other while meditating. Doesn't meditation require at least a bit of "seclusion"? I think I read that in like 100 suttas.
It's a good point. Meditation is not a group sport.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by JamesTheGiant »

thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:28 pm
Not sure how this story makes it ok to discriminate or torture students?
L
I'll say it plainly:
Nobody is being "tortured" by being told to wear a mask or leave.
Your thinking is twisted and distorted.
You've been redpilled, and not in a healthy way.
Your line of thought is malignant, and leads only to suffering.
Do you really think anything good will come from your opinion on masks and government control?
You need to find a healthier way to deal with these views you have.
You are like the person in that sutta running from light, into darkness.
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robertk
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by robertk »

Mod note : no personal attacks please. If you disagree with a post explain why politely.
thepea
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by thepea »

retrofuturist wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:38 pm Greetings,
johnsmitty wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:22 pm Is it up to 2 masks yet? Fauci said you need 2 masks recently, didn't he? Lol. I can't imagine people are even within six feet of each other while meditating. Doesn't meditation require at least a bit of "seclusion"? I think I read that in like 100 suttas.
It's a good point. Meditation is not a group sport.

Metta,
Paul. :)
It is a group activity, for support.
Meditate in your room(etc) is easy.
Meditate in group in hall. Medium
Meditate alone in cell. Hard

We choose location based on what we are dealing with.
thepea
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by thepea »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:40 pm
thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:28 pm
Not sure how this story makes it ok to discriminate or torture students?
L
I'll say it plainly:
Nobody is being "tortured" by being told to wear a mask or leave.
Your thinking is twisted and distorted.
You've been redpilled, and not in a healthy way.
Your line of thought is malignant, and leads only to suffering.
Do you really think anything good will come from your opinion on masks and government control?
You need to find a healthier way to deal with these views you have.
You are like the person in that sutta running from light, into darkness.
How so.
Going groceries at current leads to police interaction.
The stores have brought in policy that if a barefaced shopper enters police must be called. Regardless of exemption.
Do you support this?

Like I said I’m strong. I challenge authority and state my case, hold my ground as I know the law.
I place stores, dhamma centres into the fire, and make them choose to violate my freedoms. That’s their kamma.
And the Vipassana centre violated my freedoms and the agreement we signed.
They will have to face the karma for this.
I am the light sir!
Last edited by thepea on Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:44 pm It is a group activity, for support.
This sounds like feelings, not Dhamma.
thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:44 pmMeditate in your room(etc) is easy.
Meditate in group in hall. Medium
Meditate alone in cell. Hard

We choose location based on what we are dealing with.
Is this a Goenka teaching? I've never seen anything like this in the suttas.

All the best.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
thepea
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by thepea »

retrofuturist wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:54 pm Greetings,
thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:44 pm It is a group activity, for support.
This sounds like feelings, not Dhamma.
thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:44 pmMeditate in your room(etc) is easy.
Meditate in group in hall. Medium
Meditate alone in cell. Hard

We choose location based on what we are dealing with.
Is this a Goenka teaching? I've never seen anything like this in the suttas.

All the best.

Metta,
Paul. :)
When I did the long course and was doing interview with teacher, he mentioned to me that on long courses deeper traumas may present, and suggested working accordingly as I mentioned.
I’m not certain if this instruction is given to all, I don’t recall Goenka mentioning this, but when I begin to use the cells this instruction was given.
Another teacher confirmed the meditation hall is good when sleepy or you are having difficulty looking at certain traumas.
When very concentrated and focused the cell may offer greater solitude to go deeper, and ones room or home might be more relaxing but have to be careful not to sleep.
Each has a differing vibration. The hall you are with kayalamitras who support, but can also burp and fart and keep one distracted.
Although I agree meditation is looking inward, we have to use the facility to our advantage.

All of these teachings I’ve received have been full of wisdom and for compassionate reasons.

I gave myself fully to the centres and never had reason to mistrust. Now that trust has been severed.
Not the practice, but the centres logic.
I cannot accept treating anyone like this. I just could not turn a dhamma student away and cut them from the facility over a slave rag. But they all have and I’m trying to make sense of it. I had thought them wise but all I can figure is they are under financial constraints from the governments and they want to survive at all costs.

I’m looking for another reason, but they have huge infrastructures in place and lots of people who reside on lands.

For me as an absolute purist, and I’ve met others we would rather see the place collapsed than carry on down this road of discriminatory service. The dhamma simply cannot be held hostage regardless of financial or structural constraints.

Am I wrong?
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retrofuturist
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings thepea,
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:19 am For me as an absolute purist...
An absolute purist in terms of the Dhamma or of the Goenka technique? Because an absolute purist of the Dhamma would have no need for the Goenka technique, and an absolute purist of the Goenka technique would have no regard for anything outside of Goenka's instruction.
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:19 amI gave myself fully to the centres and never had reason to mistrust. Now that trust has been severed.

...

...and I’ve met others we would rather see the place collapsed than carry on down this road of discriminatory service. The dhamma simply cannot be held hostage regardless of financial or structural constraints.

Am I wrong?
An organisation is an organisation. An organisation is not the Dhamma. Even the Sangha is not the Dhamma, hence being a different aspect of the Triple Gem.

Perhaps you put your faith in an organisation, a technique, and those who parrot Goenka's instruction? Perhaps it would have been better placed in the Dhamma and the Triple Gem?

Are you wrong? That's for you to decide. Others can only offer perspectives... what you do with them is up to you.

All the best.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
thepea
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by thepea »

retrofuturist wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:37 am Greetings thepea,
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:19 am For me as an absolute purist...
An absolute purist in terms of the Dhamma or of the Goenka technique? Because an absolute purist of the Dhamma would have no need for the Goenka technique, and an absolute purist of the Goenka technique would have no regard for anything outside of Goenka's instruction.
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:19 amI gave myself fully to the centres and never had reason to mistrust. Now that trust has been severed.

...

...and I’ve met others we would rather see the place collapsed than carry on down this road of discriminatory service. The dhamma simply cannot be held hostage regardless of financial or structural constraints.

Am I wrong?
An organisation is an organisation. An organisation is not the Dhamma. Even the Sangha is not the Dhamma, hence being a different aspect of the Triple Gem.

Perhaps you put your faith in an organisation, a technique, and those who parrot Goenka's instruction? Perhaps it would have been better placed in the Dhamma and the Triple Gem?

Are you wrong? That's for you to decide. Others can only offer perspectives... what you do with them is up to you.

All the best.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Like I said I’m 100% certain of the technique of Buddha, I know the path to nibbana.
I’m not arguing that this method is superior over mahasi sayadaw method or another method.
If they take you inside and allow you to know the truth within that’s great and that’s pure.
I also realize that one does not require an organization to continue with their journey.
I just cannot comprehend how this organization is discriminating at the moment. How they have allowed maras rules into their teachings to corrupt them.
This seems crystal clear to me and it goes against everything the Buddha teaches.
All the stories of preservation and purity and the global dhammists are allowing mara in so easily, basically zero resistance.
I would like to comprehend that there is a greater purpose over just survival of money and infrastructure.
I mean 100% no at all cost do you compromise the dhamma teachings and delivery. Especially when Mara is known to take and never give back(greed).
They basically gave the bunch of Keys to Mara.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings thepea,
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:57 am Like I said I’m 100% certain of the technique of Buddha, I know the path to nibbana.
So why do you care about the Goenka technique then?

You don't believe the lie that the Goenka technique is actually the Buddha's technique do you?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
thepea
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by thepea »

retrofuturist wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:00 am Greetings thepea,
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:57 am Like I said I’m 100% certain of the technique of Buddha, I know the path to nibbana.
So why do you care about the Goenka technique then?

You don't believe the lie that the Goenka technique is actually the Buddha's technique do you?

Metta,
Paul. :)
What I have come to comprehend is the path to ultimate truth.
I don’t practice like goenka teaches in 10day courses.
I have activated annicca and practice with whatever is available.
I’m quite certain that other techniques help a student to dig the hole to water, but once in the water we all do the same practice of swimming at that point.

I’m not concerned about technique or practice, but more about the so called enlightened ones treating others with discrimination do they can keep living the lifestyles they are accustomed.
Seems opposite to buddhas teachings, society is divided. Although most would say I’m right leaning I feel I’m about balance(freedom) I see the right as tyranny and the left as tyranny. Just opposite sides of the scale.

Now the Vipassana centres globally seem heavily left leaning and anti freedom.
I’m trying to comprehend the dhammist logic, I see the corporate logic.
If they are full of shit, I have no issue cutting ties.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:17 am Now the Vipassana centres globally seem heavily left leaning and anti freedom.
I’m trying to comprehend the dhammist logic, I see the corporate logic.
Who says there is any? :shrug:
Ud 2.9 wrote: All subjection to others is painful.
All independence is bliss.
What is held in common brings suffering,
for duties are hard to overcome.
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:17 am If they are full of shit, I have no issue cutting ties.
:anjali:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
thepea
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by thepea »

retrofuturist wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:21 am Greetings,
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:17 am Now the Vipassana centres globally seem heavily left leaning and anti freedom.
I’m trying to comprehend the dhammist logic, I see the corporate logic.
Who says there is any? :shrug:
Ud 2.9 wrote: All subjection to others is painful.
All independence is bliss.
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:17 am If they are full of shit, I have no issue cutting ties.
:anjali:

Metta,
Paul. :)
So you are anti-sangha?
Independent?
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retrofuturist
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:22 am So you are anti-sangha?
No, because the Sangha is rooted in the Vinaya, and thus (to use your venacular), is not "full of shit".
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:22 am Independent?
Elsewhere translated (by John Ireland) as "sovereignty".

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
thepea
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by thepea »

retrofuturist wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:24 am Greetings,
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:22 am So you are anti-sangha?
No, because the Sangha is rooted in the Vinaya, and thus (to use your venacular), is not "full of shit".
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:22 am Independent?
Elsewhere translated (by John Ireland) as "sovereignty".

Metta,
Paul. :)
Ok I’m following you.
Yes, Sovereignty.

This event has certainly brought much into clarity.
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