Take off your spectacles

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
thepea
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Take off your spectacles

Post by thepea »

Vipassana instructions to begin meditation.
If you wear spectacles take them off, you meditate with eyes closed so no need to wear them.
The sensation is a distraction and hindrance to those beginning Vipassana.
Good pragmatic advice from Mr.G and perhaps a reference from a sutta, I’m not certain maybe someone could add.

Fast forward and masks are mandatory in the meditation hall, you don’t need them to breath but must wear them.

Do you not see maras grip and the hypocrisy?

Convince me I’m mistaken.
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Dan74
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by Dan74 »

thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:20 pm Vipassana instructions to begin meditation.
If you wear spectacles take them off, you meditate with eyes closed so no need to wear them.
The sensation is a distraction and hindrance to those beginning Vipassana.
Good pragmatic advice from Mr.G and perhaps a reference from a sutta, I’m not certain maybe someone could add.

Fast forward and masks are mandatory in the meditation hall, you don’t need them to breath but must wear them.

Do you not see maras grip and the hypocrisy?

Convince me I’m mistaken.
People trying to do the right thing, be responsible and stop others from contracting a potentially fatal infection. What is there to be convinced of? You are not looking to be convinced, but to be confirmed in your beliefs. In your sense of righteousness against everybody else.
_/|\_
thepea
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by thepea »

Dan74 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:30 pm
thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:20 pm Vipassana instructions to begin meditation.
If you wear spectacles take them off, you meditate with eyes closed so no need to wear them.
The sensation is a distraction and hindrance to those beginning Vipassana.
Good pragmatic advice from Mr.G and perhaps a reference from a sutta, I’m not certain maybe someone could add.

Fast forward and masks are mandatory in the meditation hall, you don’t need them to breath but must wear them.

Do you not see maras grip and the hypocrisy?

Convince me I’m mistaken.
People trying to do the right thing, be responsible and stop others from contracting a potentially fatal infection. What is there to be convinced of?
So you are saying that you support the corruption of the dhamma?

I heard stories of monks in Burma protecting the dhamma for centuries with their lives in order to maintain its pristine purity.
I share those values, there is no reason to corrup the dhamma.
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by JamesTheGiant »

thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:20 pm Do you not see maras grip and the hypocrisy?
Maybe you should start a single topic titled "Thepea's continuing complaints about the Vipassana organisation". because that's all you seem to do these days. You've got a real bee in your bonnet about Goenka retreats at the moment.
Or another titled "Anti-mask libertarian ranting".
thepea
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by thepea »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:06 pm
thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:20 pm Do you not see maras grip and the hypocrisy?
Maybe you should start a single topic titled "Thepea's continuing complaints about the Vipassana organisation". because that's all you seem to do these days. You've got a real bee in your bonnet about Goenka retreats at the moment.
Or another titled "Anti-mask libertarian ranting".
I do have a bee in my bonnet.
I do not feel that this planned event is grounds to alter the pristine purity of the dhamma.
There is no reason to do this. Zero.
That’s my bee.
And I will bang on my drum until I get an acceptable answer to this.
Last edited by thepea on Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Inedible
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by Inedible »

thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:20 pm Fast forward and masks are mandatory in the meditation hall, you don’t need them to breath but must wear them.
You can be carrying covid-19 without knowing that you have it. The people who run the meditation hall can't tell who is contagious and who isn't. A mask helps reduce the spread of virus from your mouth to the air around you. Just in case. No one wants to wear the mask. Just do it.
thepea
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by thepea »

Inedible wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:12 pm
thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:20 pm Fast forward and masks are mandatory in the meditation hall, you don’t need them to breath but must wear them.
You can be carrying covid-19 without knowing that you have it. The people who run the meditation hall can't tell who is contagious and who isn't. A mask helps reduce the spread of virus from your mouth to the air around you. Just in case. No one wants to wear the mask. Just do it.
This is not a Covid discussion.
Covid is not grounds to alter the pristine purity of dhamma.
Inedible
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by Inedible »

The internet is a big place. Can't you find somewhere where people agree with you?
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by JamesTheGiant »

thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:14 pm Covid is not grounds to alter the pristine purity of dhamma.
True. But they're not altering the pristine purity of the dhamma by insisting on masks in the meditation center.
That's just altering the dress-code, nothing to do with the purity of the dhamma. They could make all students wear protective overalls, a face shield, mask, and gloves, but the dhamma would still be the same.
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Dan74
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by Dan74 »

thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:35 pm
Dan74 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:30 pm
thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:20 pm Vipassana instructions to begin meditation.
If you wear spectacles take them off, you meditate with eyes closed so no need to wear them.
The sensation is a distraction and hindrance to those beginning Vipassana.
Good pragmatic advice from Mr.G and perhaps a reference from a sutta, I’m not certain maybe someone could add.

Fast forward and masks are mandatory in the meditation hall, you don’t need them to breath but must wear them.

Do you not see maras grip and the hypocrisy?

Convince me I’m mistaken.
People trying to do the right thing, be responsible and stop others from contracting a potentially fatal infection. What is there to be convinced of?
So you are saying that you support the corruption of the dhamma?

I heard stories of monks in Burma protecting the dhamma for centuries with their lives in order to maintain its pristine purity.
I share those values, there is no reason to corrup the dhamma.
I support reading comprehension.

But this too appears to have gone out the window with you. And given place to this obsession.
_/|\_
thepea
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by thepea »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:33 pm
thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:14 pm Covid is not grounds to alter the pristine purity of dhamma.
True. But they're not altering the pristine purity of the dhamma by insisting on masks in the meditation center.
That's just altering the dress-code, nothing to do with the purity of the dhamma. They could make all students wear protective overalls, a face shield, mask, and gloves, but the dhamma would still be the same.
No, it isn’t just altering the dress code.

I’m not sure if you have ever been molested against your will. I have. The slave rag was placed over my mouth to prevent me from screaming.
The feeling of absolute helplessness cannot be described.
My wife was a victim of rape also, she was not gagged but forced by the adults to keep quiet as they did not want to create a fuss over this. The forced rag symbolizes to her the inability to receive justice for the crime that occured to her.
Do you ever watch movies where people are held hostage, the slave rag is used to gag them so they can’t speak.
Have you seen slaves in southern US history, they were gagged also as it keeps people from voicing out.
I am part of many support groups currently, this is offensive to a huge group. I listen to many stories of abuse.
Some have psychological traumas and others physical.
This is why governments cannot mandate the slave rag as it cannot be worn by many.

So.... my old dhamma centre that was so sensitive to any student with the slightest food allergy and use to make every effort to accommodate them with dining, will not make any effort to accommodate or stand up for those of us who cannot wear the slave rag or who simply refuse to wear it.
Now teach me about compassion....
I have watched AT’s walk people with massive traumas surfacing with every ounce of compassion.
It’s beautiful to see someone who wants to run away begin to look at their trauma, but it’s always been done gently.
Some times it’s done get distracted LOOK!! And other times it’s get yourself a cup of tea and a hot water bottle and go back to your room and take rest.
Either way it was done with compassion, and it was completely on line with dhamma and it was pure.
I went to see them and my concerns were ignored, I was told I could never serve or sit a course again as long as the mask mandate was in effect.
I’m strong, I went there with the clearest of intentions to question their ethics and question them. Again they cannot see with the slave rags on. Only concerned about reopening at any cost. Not one concern about purity of dhamma.
Like everything now, trespass on freedoms and dignity and just say “covid”.
No!
Not on my watch.
johnsmitty
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by johnsmitty »

thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:20 pm Vipassana instructions to begin meditation.
If you wear spectacles take them off, you meditate with eyes closed so no need to wear them.
The sensation is a distraction and hindrance to those beginning Vipassana.
Good pragmatic advice from Mr.G and perhaps a reference from a sutta, I’m not certain maybe someone could add.

Fast forward and masks are mandatory in the meditation hall, you don’t need them to breath but must wear them.

Do you not see maras grip and the hypocrisy?

Convince me I’m mistaken.
Is it up to 2 masks yet? Fauci said you need 2 masks recently, didn't he? Lol. I can't imagine people are even within six feet of each other while meditating. Doesn't meditation require at least a bit of "seclusion"? I think I read that in like 100 suttas.
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Thepea, Remember how Goenka told the story about the delicious Khir pudding with black cardamom seeds in it? And the child refused to eat it because of the black seeds?
thepea
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by thepea »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:24 pm Thepea, Remember how Goenka told the story about the delicious Khir pudding with black cardamom seeds in it? And the child refused to eat it because of the black seeds?
Not sure how this story makes it ok to discriminate or torture students?

Perhaps you can expand.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Take off your spectacles

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
thepea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:10 pm I’m not sure if you have ever been molested against your will. I have. The slave rag was placed over my mouth to prevent me from screaming.
The feeling of absolute helplessness cannot be described.
Assuming this is truth, rather than hyperbole, then you can probably get a written exemption from a professional. Here in Victoria (Australia), exemptions are available for a few reasons, and past trauma is one.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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