Did I experience the first jhana?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
dpcalder
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:02 pm

Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by dpcalder »

Because I am not yet morally purified enough to enter into the sort of meditative practices monks engage in, a lot of my meditation is simply concentrated mindfulness aiming to encounter and be mindful of the hindrances when they arise. However, after an hour and a half or so of doing this, I find that I enter into a state of almost dream-like consciousness in which I am still fully conscious and not in a trance, but everything suddenly seems very "quiet."

In this state, hindrances still begin to arise but they seem very distant and faint and they fall away by themselves almost as soon as they arise, more as temptations to defilement that do not come to fruition, rather than actual defilements. Is this the first jhana or samadhi or something else?
dharmacorps
Posts: 2298
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by dharmacorps »

Don't worry about the jhanas if you are just beginning. Focus on the meditation object, following the precepts, and worry about the rest later. Nobody outside of yourself can credibly tell you if you have entered jhanas or not, even an experienced in person meditation teacher who knows you would at best be guessing. It takes a lot of time, practice and self evaluation.
dpcalder
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:02 pm

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by dpcalder »

dharmacorps wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:56 pm Don't worry about the jhanas if you are just beginning. Focus on the meditation object, following the precepts, and worry about the rest later. Nobody outside of yourself can credibly tell you if you have entered jhanas or not, even an experienced in person meditation teacher who knows you would at best be guessing. It takes a lot of time, practice and self evaluation.
Makes sense. I'm just wondering because after an hour and a half or so there does seem to be some kind of "phase transition" that causes my mind to be far quieter and the hindrances far weaker.
dharmacorps
Posts: 2298
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by dharmacorps »

dpcalder wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:01 pm
Makes sense. I'm just wondering because after an hour and a half or so there does seem to be some kind of "phase transition" that causes my mind to be far quieter and the hindrances far weaker.
A quieter mind and retreating hindrances is doing meditation "right"! No reason you can't just leave it at that.
User avatar
one_awakening
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:04 am

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by one_awakening »

Sounds like access concentration to me, the stage before first Jhana.
“You only lose what you cling to”
Srilankaputra
Posts: 1210
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:56 am
Location: Sri Lanka

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by Srilankaputra »

Pining for some concept is a sure way to go backwards. First enjoy what you have discovered. Become more skilled in it. Develop the skills in entering faster, staying longer etc.

Wish you all success in all your endeavours. Goodbye!
pegembara
Posts: 3454
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by pegembara »

dpcalder wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:53 pm Because I am not yet morally purified enough to enter into the sort of meditative practices monks engage in, a lot of my meditation is simply concentrated mindfulness aiming to encounter and be mindful of the hindrances when they arise. However, after an hour and a half or so of doing this, I find that I enter into a state of almost dream-like consciousness in which I am still fully conscious and not in a trance, but everything suddenly seems very "quiet."

In this state, hindrances still begin to arise but they seem very distant and faint and they fall away by themselves almost as soon as they arise, more as temptations to defilement that do not come to fruition, rather than actual defilements. Is this the first jhana or samadhi or something else?
The mind stops getting pulled by the senses and quiets down which is part of mental development. :clap:
Hopefully, you will come to see what is real and what is not!
"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will develop mindfulness immersed in the body. We will pursue it, hand it the reins and take it as a basis, give it a grounding. We will steady it, consolidate it, and set about it properly.' That's how you should train yourselves."

"Just as if a person, catching six animals of different ranges, of different habitats, were to bind them with a strong rope. Catching a snake, he would bind it with a strong rope. Catching a crocodile... a bird... a dog... a hyena... a monkey, he would bind it with a strong rope. Binding them all with a strong rope, he would tether them to a strong post or stake.[1]

"Then those six animals, of different ranges, of different habitats, would each pull toward its own range & habitat. The snake would pull, thinking, 'I'll go into the anthill.' The crocodile would pull, thinking, 'I'll go into the water.' The bird would pull, thinking, 'I'll fly up into the air.' The dog would pull, thinking, 'I'll go into the village.' The hyena would pull, thinking, 'I'll go into the charnel ground.' The monkey would pull, thinking, 'I'll go into the forest.' And when these six animals became internally exhausted, they would stand, sit, or lie down right there next to the post or stake. In the same way, when a monk whose mindfulness immersed in the body is developed & pursued, the eye does not pull toward pleasing forms, and unpleasing forms are not repellent. The ear does not pull toward pleasing sounds... The nose does not pull toward pleasing aromas... The tongue does not pull toward pleasing flavors... The body does not pull toward pleasing tactile sensations... The intellect does not pull toward pleasing ideas, and unpleasing ideas are not repellent. This, monks, is restraint.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
User avatar
mjaviem
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:06 pm

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by mjaviem »

dpcalder wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:01 pm Makes sense. I'm just wondering because after an hour and a half or so there does seem to be some kind of "phase transition" that causes my mind to be far quieter and the hindrances far weaker.
Wow, sounds wonderful. Congratulations.

IMO you shouldn't get attached to it and a way to do it could be to think that in the future you may look back to this experience and see that it was some side effect, something unrelated, of no real value. This can kill any clinging, I hope. (Sorry, I want to be helpful not mean).
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
SarathW
Posts: 21184
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by SarathW »

In first Jhana you have wholesome Vitakka, vicara, Pithy, Sukha, and Ekagata.
If you confirm this you have the first Jhana as per Tipitaka.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Inedible
Posts: 952
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:55 am
Location: Iowa City

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by Inedible »

I'm going to have to disagree. It sounds like your practice is going on longer than it should. Switch to walking meditation for a bit to raise more energy and then sit again. Dullness and lethargy can feel very good. It can also be very quiet. It can look like good concentration, but it is the hindrance sloth and torpor. Don't encourage this state.
User avatar
frank k
Posts: 2247
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by frank k »

Definitely read Ajahn T's essay (or listen to 10min audio of it) if you haven't already.
https://archive.org/details/Ven.Thaniss ... OnSamadhi
link to text on that page, short essay.

dpcalder wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:53 pm Because I am not yet morally purified enough to enter into the sort of meditative practices monks engage in, a lot of my meditation is simply concentrated mindfulness aiming to encounter and be mindful of the hindrances when they arise. However, after an hour and a half or so of doing this, I find that I enter into a state of almost dream-like consciousness in which I am still fully conscious and not in a trance, but everything suddenly seems very "quiet."

In this state, hindrances still begin to arise but they seem very distant and faint and they fall away by themselves almost as soon as they arise, more as temptations to defilement that do not come to fruition, rather than actual defilements. Is this the first jhana or samadhi or something else?
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
Ratnakar
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:34 am

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by Ratnakar »

dpcalder wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:53 pm Because I am not yet morally purified enough to enter into the sort of meditative practices monks engage in, a lot of my meditation is simply concentrated mindfulness aiming to encounter and be mindful of the hindrances when they arise. However, after an hour and a half or so of doing this, I find that I enter into a state of almost dream-like consciousness in which I am still fully conscious and not in a trance, but everything suddenly seems very "quiet."

In this state, hindrances still begin to arise but they seem very distant and faint and they fall away by themselves almost as soon as they arise, more as temptations to defilement that do not come to fruition, rather than actual defilements. Is this the first jhana or samadhi or something else?
According to patisambhidamagga the first jhana is simply a state without 7 hindrances

According to sutta the right jhana is a state devoid of 5 hindrances while wrong jhana is a state with 5 hindrances
Mn108
"The Blessed One, brahmin, did not praise every type of meditation, nor did he condemn every type of meditation. What kind of meditation did the Blessed One not praise? Here, brahmin, someone abides with his mind obsessed by sensual lust, a prey to sensual lust, and he does not understand as it actually is the escape from arisen sensual lust. While he harbours sensual lust within, he meditates, premeditates, out-meditates, and mismeditates. He abides with his mind obsessed by ill will, a prey to ill will…with his mind obsessed by sloth and torpor, a prey to sloth and torpor…with his mind obsessed by restlessness and remorse, a prey to restlessness and remorse…with his mind obsessed by doubt, a prey to doubt, and he does not understand as it actually is the escape from arisen doubt. While he harbours doubt within, he meditates, premeditates, out-meditates, and mismeditates. The Blessed One did not praise that kind of meditation.

“And what kind of meditation did the Blessed One praise? Here, brahmin, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, a bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhāna"
Patisambhidamagga -> treatise on knowledge
(326)Understanding of reflexion on the hindrances for the purpose of obtaining the first jhana, and of composure, is knowledge of equanimity about formation

(485) One who abandons the hindrances demonstrates the meaning of the
first jhana
Hopefully I answer your question
User avatar
pitithefool
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:39 am

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by pitithefool »

dpcalder wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:53 pm Because I am not yet morally purified enough to enter into the sort of meditative practices monks engage in, a lot of my meditation is simply concentrated mindfulness aiming to encounter and be mindful of the hindrances when they arise. However, after an hour and a half or so of doing this, I find that I enter into a state of almost dream-like consciousness in which I am still fully conscious and not in a trance, but everything suddenly seems very "quiet."

In this state, hindrances still begin to arise but they seem very distant and faint and they fall away by themselves almost as soon as they arise, more as temptations to defilement that do not come to fruition, rather than actual defilements. Is this the first jhana or samadhi or something else?
This is good to hear,

I'm going to say if you're looking for a solid answer, it's going to stir controversy because of the distinction between access concentration and the first jhana.

No matter, I like to stick with the Sutta Pitaka's more inclusive definitions, so good job, sounds like jhana!

Now what's important is what to do next...

Some important questions to ask:
-Are you experiencing this often or every time you meditate?
If so, keep doing whatever you're doing. If no, when you have these type of experience, pay attention to the conditions preceding the meditation session and see if you can set those conditions up in the future. Things like guarding the senses, moderation in eating, etc. are things to look out for.

Are you experiencing variations in the feeling of pitisukha or becoming distracted?
If so, that's okay. Work towards relaxing and letting go until the feeling of calm and quiet or peacefulness becomes stable. You want to make your mind like a tree stump. Tree stumps have no desire to leave the very spot they stand on. What would make you content to stay in one spot for as long as you wish?

I hope this helps!
Please note: This profile picture is not actually a picture of the user.
User avatar
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
Posts: 2168
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Srilankaputra wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:52 am ... Become more skilled in it. Develop the skills in entering faster, staying longer etc.
:goodpost:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
2600htz
Posts: 823
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:37 pm

Re: Did I experience the first jhana?

Post by 2600htz »

Hi:

There are such different views on what a jhana is on this forum , that is not even advisable to give an opinion, unless you subscribe to the same kind of viewpoint of the replier.

But as a general rule in meditation: if it feels good keep doing it, until you find a teacher and he gives you a more definitive veredict in line with his understanding.

Regards.
Post Reply