Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

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Quantum Foam
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Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by Quantum Foam »

The question is above. Do meditation masters (bhikkhus from monasteries, not someone like Goenka) still teach VEDANANUPUSSANA and CITTANUPASSANA without considering the breath? All I can think of is Mogok Sayadaw. Or do you know even more where body and mind contemplation is still present today without a strong focus on Anapanasati in monasteries?

Thank you.
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sphairos
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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by sphairos »

Quantum Foam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:56 pm The question is above. Do meditation masters (bhikkhus from monasteries, not someone like Goenka) still teach VEDANANUPUSSANA and CITTANUPASSANA without considering the breath? All I can think of is Mogok Sayadaw. Or do you know even more where body and mind contemplation is still present today without a strong focus on Anapanasati in monasteries?

Thank you.
QF
Yes, many authentic Thai teachers (old respected monks) teach similarly to Goenka-ji (although not the same). According to my experience under my Thai teachers. In many monasteries in Chiang Mai and other parts of Thailand. Although the start is always with the breath, but not long, just to focus the mind.
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Quantum Foam
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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by Quantum Foam »

sphairos wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:20 pm
Quantum Foam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:56 pm The question is above. Do meditation masters (bhikkhus from monasteries, not someone like Goenka) still teach VEDANANUPUSSANA and CITTANUPASSANA without considering the breath? All I can think of is Mogok Sayadaw. Or do you know even more where body and mind contemplation is still present today without a strong focus on Anapanasati in monasteries?

Thank you.
QF
Yes, many authentic Thai teachers (old respected monks) teach similarly to Goenka-ji (although not the same). According to my experience under my Thai teachers. In many monasteries in Chiang Mai and other parts of Thailand. Although the start is always with the breath, but not long, just to focus the mind.
thanks for your comment. Are there any books by Ajahns or Bhantes from Sri Lanka that teach this type of systematic contemplation as taught by Mogok Sayadaw? Thank you
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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by befriend »

Bhikkhu Analayo uses whole body awareness as the homebase for satipatthana instead of the breath he has great book called satipatthana a practitioners guide or something close to that
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Quantum Foam
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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by Quantum Foam »

befriend wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:51 pm Bhikkhu Analayo uses whole body awareness as the homebase for satipatthana instead of the breath he has great book called satipatthana a practitioners guide or something close to that
Many thanks. I've already heard about this from the book by Analayo. Does anyone know if it is available in German?

happy to have more suggestions regarding books.
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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by SarathW »

Satipathana is not completed without focus on the breath or the body movements (Bodily Sankhara )which is one aspect of the five clinging-aggregate.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:32 pm Satipathana is not completed without focus on the... body movements...
Then why didn't u understand eating meditation?
SarathW wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:32 pm (Bodily Sankhara )which is one aspect of the five clinging-aggregate.
Bodily Sankhara is not bodily movts. Bodily Sankhara is the breath.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by DooDoot »

Quantum Foam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:56 pm teach VEDANANUPUSSANA and CITTANUPASSANA without considering the breath?
just as many 'soft/lite jhana clingers' on this forum underestimate what real jhana is, many meditation teachers underestimate what VEDANANUPUSSANA and CITTANUPASSANA are; therefore don't understand what real Anapanasati is. real CITTANUPASSANA does not include imagining one is observing 'thoughts'.
SarathW wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:32 pm Satipathana
Joseph Goldstein exemplifies the underestimation of CITTANUPASSANA
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by SarathW »

DooDoot wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:59 am
SarathW wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:32 pm Satipathana is not completed without focus on the... body movements...
Then why didn't u understand eating meditation?
SarathW wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:32 pm (Bodily Sankhara )which is one aspect of the five clinging-aggregate.
Bodily Sankhara is not bodily movts. Bodily Sankhara is the breath.
I understand you can't move your body without breath.
Perhaps I need the help of Bhikkhu Pesala here.
He once answers my question and said walking, sitting, etc are also bodily Sankhara.
Forgive me Bhante if I misquote you.
Perhaps someone else can chip in here.
Last edited by SarathW on Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:12 am Perhaps I need Bhikkhu... here.
You need the Buddha here to stop. Assāsapassāsā kho kāyasaṅkhāro
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by SarathW »

DooDoot wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:13 am
SarathW wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:12 am Perhaps I need Bhikkhu Pesala here.
You need the Buddha here. Assāsapassāsā kho kāyasaṅkhāro
Budhha is here but you can't see it.
:tongue:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:15 am Budhha is here but you can't see it.
Buddha said assāsapassāsā kho kāyasaṅkhāro. U need to stop.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by BrokenBones »

DooDoot wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:01 am
Quantum Foam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:56 pm teach VEDANANUPUSSANA and CITTANUPASSANA without considering the breath?
many have wrong view about VEDANANUPUSSANA and CITTANUPASSANA. just as many 'soft/lite jhana clingers' on this forum underestimate what real jhana is, many meditation teachers underestimate what VEDANANUPUSSANA and CITTANUPASSANA are; therefore don't understand what real Anapanasati is. real CITTANUPASSANA does not include imagining one is observing 'thoughts'.
... and many have wrong view about Right View and overestimate their understanding.

As for the original OP & the breath... it's a means to an end... there are other approaches to quieten the mind and from where the four foundations are easier to observe and understand... it's just that the breath is so accessible... maybe try mindfulness/contemplation of the five hindrances... it's a practice that can be done all day.
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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by DooDoot »

BrokenBones wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:17 am ... and many have wrong view about Right View and overestimate their understanding.

As for the original OP & the breath... it's a means to an end... there are other approaches to quieten the mind and from where the four foundations are easier to observe and understand... it's just that the breath is so accessible... maybe try mindfulness/contemplation of the five hindrances... it's a practice that can be done all day.
the above sounds like gibberish. explicitly about cittanupassana, the Buddha said:
There is no development of mindfulness of breathing for someone who is unmindful and lacks awareness, I say.

Nāhaṁ, bhikkhave, muṭṭhassatissa asampajānassa ānāpānassatiṁ vadāmi.

https://suttacentral.net/mn118/en/sujato
obviously the five hindrances means unmindful and lacks awareness
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Re: Does someone only teach Satipatthana explicitly without being focused on Anapanasati?

Post by pegembara »

Capture.JPG
If the mind is jumping around like a monkey, how can one develop any wisdom/insight?
Awareness alone is not enough! Having a desire to really
understand what is going on is much more important than
just trying to be aware. We practise mindfulness meditation
because we want to understand
Yogi: Sometimes my mind feels very quiet and I get the sense
that there is nothing to do.

SUT: When the mind becomes quieter, there is a lot of work
left to do. You have to start investigating at that time. When
the mind becomes quiet it does not mean that there is nothing
to do — the mind has just become ready! When you do not
bring in questions to help the mind look more critically at
what is happening, it will feel that there is nothing to do.
https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books11/Ash ... Enough.pdf
Last edited by pegembara on Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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