frank k wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:03 pm
You can hear sounds in the four jhanas, AN 10.72, and is 'Theravada' an oxymoron?
Dear Frank,
I would answer in the negative that the Theravāda is an oxymoron. The sutta you adduced actually lends credence to the fact that there is no sound perceived in the first
jhāna ,nor discursive speech considering other contexts: "Speech has ceased for one who has entered the first
jhāna (
paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa vācā niruddhā hoti; SN 36.11).
AN 10.72 clearly says that there is no sound in the first
jhāna. Let me prove that point. It says, to begin with: "Sound is a thorn for the first
jhāna" (
paṭhamassa jhānassa saddo kaṇṭako). Considering that alone, one may come to the conclusion that this refers either to some time before the actual attainment, that is, that sound is an obstruction to the attainment of the first
jhāna, or that sound can somehow influence the already attained
jhāna state negatively.
That the latter option is what the
sutta intends can be seen by the explanation it gives for the subsequent higher
jhānas. To quote what it has to offer regarding the second: "Applied and sustained application [of mind] are a thorn for the second
jhāna (
dutiyassa jhānassa vitakkavicārā kaṇṭakā). The
sutta thus establishes that it is speaking of phenomena
not present in the
jhānas it discusses since we know that applied and sustained application [of mind] (
vitakkavicārā) are certainly not present in the second
jhāna. Same with the phenomena it takes up for the rest of the four
jhānas and the attainment of cessation. This has already been dealt with in the Kathāvatthu:
https://suttacentral.net/kv18.8/en/aung ... ight=false
This is a reply of Ā. Brahmāli following a suggestion of Ā. Ṭhānissaro that the thorns under discussion merely make it difficult to enter or remain in the relevant state rather than being phenomena opposed to these and non-occurring therein:
He [Ā. Ṭhānissaro] states, “thus to say that directed thought and evaluation is a thorn for the second jhana means that these mental activities make it difficult to enter or remain in the second jhana”. But this is incorrect. Vitakka and vicāra (his “directed thought and evaluation”) are specifically said not to exist in the second jhāna. This means they have to be abandoned prior to entry, and if they re-arise after the entry, then one has already left the attainment. In other words, these two factors of the first jhāna cannot exist in the second jhāna. (AT’s actual wording is quite ambiguous, but regardless it is misleading.) When he then states, based on this flawed argument, that this means “noise is a thorn for the first jhana simply means that noise makes it difficult to enter or remain there,” he is drawing a conclusion that is unwarranted. In fact, basing himself on the precedent of the second jhāna, the only logical conclusion is that noise is incompatible with the first jhāna, and that this is the meaning of ‘thorn’, at least in this case. As so often, we should be careful with being too quick to dismiss the understanding of the commentaries.
In fact, the commentary to AN.72 seems to state that is a "thorn in the sense of destruction" (
vijjhanaṭṭhena kaṇṭako). Given that both interpretations are cogent, I would opt to go with the additional evidence that is found in the commentary.