Advice on finding meditation instruction online?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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dpcalder
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Advice on finding meditation instruction online?

Post by dpcalder »

In particular, I want to find instruction with a Theravada Buddhist monk, especially one from the Thai Forest tradition. I would prefer one of the traditions that stick with the Pali Canon, especially taking the jhanas seriously.
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DooDoot
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Re: Advice on finding meditation instruction online?

Post by DooDoot »

Ajahn Brahm, whose instructions at the link are based in the sutta below:
And what is the faculty of concentration? There is the case where a monk, a disciple of the noble ones, making it his object to let go, attains concentration, attains singleness of mind. Quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, he enters & remains in the first jhana

SN 48.10
Simply put, Jhana states are stages of letting go

The joy and happiness that arises with the beautiful breath is fueled by the letting go of burdens such as past and future, internal commentary and diversity of consciousness. Because it is a delight born of letting go, it cannot produce attachment. One cannot be attached and letting go at the same time. The delight that arises with the beautiful breath is, in fact, a clear sign that some detachment has taken place.

Ajahn Brahm
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
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JohnK
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Re: Advice on finding meditation instruction online?

Post by JohnK »

Then you might consider instructions from Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/mp3_guidedMed_index.html
:anjali:
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
Pulsar
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Re: Advice on finding meditation instruction online?

Post by Pulsar »

Dearest dpcalder: You wrote
I would prefer one of the traditions that stick with the Pali Canon, especially taking the jhanas seriously.
Your best bet would be Ajahn Sona. He solidly stands behind the 4 buddhist jhanas, which are the only jhanas mentioned in the 8-fold path. He brushes aside the Arupas of Upanishadic origins. He takes a firm stand on it, like his teacher Ven. Henepola Gunaratne. What I like about Ven. H. Gunaratne is, long ago in his PhD theses, he admitted the Arupas, but later claimed that he made a mistake.
Not many monks admit their past mistakes. A. Sona trained under H. Gunaratne. Sona has a series of teachings on the 4 jhanas on Youtube, I am surprised at the clarity of these. Perhaps he may say something incongruous, but rarely so. He has one video on breath meditation with illustrations for Turner's Simile, emphasizing the role played by breath all the way to 4th jhana.  
I wrote about him a while ago on my Jhana thread. viewtopic.php?f=43&t=34757 
MN 4 writes of Buddha's awakening relying on 4 jhanas. Supposedly Buddha relied on breath meditation all the way.
When teachers talk of 4 jhanas and include MN 111 in the discussion, I tend to reject those, because I see no way of consolidating the teachings of Buddha with Arupas that were prebuddhist.
There are monks who teach 4 jhanas but are sympathetic to arupas. It misses the point of Jhana. I would rely on Sona to begin with. links to some of his talks below
Jhana 1 Treasure within 
Jhana 2 Samdhi is relief
jhana 3 Happiness that leads to happiness

May your journey into jhana be as amazing as the Founder who found these paths.
With love :candle:
BrokenBones
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Re: Advice on finding meditation instruction online?

Post by BrokenBones »

Pulsar wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:12 pm Dearest dpcalder: You wrote
I would prefer one of the traditions that stick with the Pali Canon, especially taking the jhanas seriously.
Your best bet would be Ajahn Sona. He solidly stands behind the 4 buddhist jhanas, which are the only jhanas mentioned in the 8-fold path. He brushes aside the Arupas of Upanishadic origins. He takes a firm stand on it, like his teacher Ven. Henepola Gunaratne. What I like about Ven. H. Gunaratne is, long ago in his PhD theses, he admitted the Arupas, but later claimed that he made a mistake.
Not many monks admit their past mistakes. A. Sona trained under H. Gunaratne. Sona has a series of teachings on the 4 jhanas on Youtube, I am surprised at the clarity of these. Perhaps he may say something incongruous, but rarely so. He has one video on breath meditation with illustrations for Turner's Simile, emphasizing the role played by breath all the way to 4th jhana.  
I wrote about him a while ago on my Jhana thread. viewtopic.php?f=43&t=34757 
MN 4 writes of Buddha's awakening relying on 4 jhanas. Supposedly Buddha relied on breath meditation all the way.
When teachers talk of 4 jhanas and include MN 111 in the discussion, I tend to reject those, because I see no way of consolidating the teachings of Buddha with Arupas that were prebuddhist.
There are monks who teach 4 jhanas but are sympathetic to arupas. It misses the point of Jhana. I would rely on Sona to begin with. links to some of his talks below
Jhana 1 Treasure within 
Jhana 2 Samdhi is relief
jhana 3 Happiness that leads to happiness

May your journey into jhana be as amazing as the Founder who found these paths.
With love :candle:
I was thinking of starting a random thread in praise of Ajahn Sona and Ven Thanissaro but I thought I'd bump this instead. They truly are awesome monks. I find Ajahn Sona teaches the whole path succinctly with everyday relevance and Ven Thanissaro has endless good advice on meditation. Ajahn Sona's talks are invariably uplifting and Ven Thanissaro gives no nonsense advice but if you listen to his other talks his humour and joy shine through.


:anjali:
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Advice on finding meditation instruction online?

Post by Ceisiwr »

dpcalder wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:04 am In particular, I want to find instruction with a Theravada Buddhist monk, especially one from the Thai Forest tradition. I would prefer one of the traditions that stick with the Pali Canon, especially taking the jhanas seriously.
As you have an interest in mindfulness of breathing I recommend Ledi Sayadaw's Ānāpāna Dīpani: http://www.ffmt.fr/articles/maitres/Led ... ayadaw.pdf
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Advice on finding meditation instruction online?

Post by Ceisiwr »

dpcalder wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:04 am In particular, I want to find instruction with a Theravada Buddhist monk, especially one from the Thai Forest tradition. I would prefer one of the traditions that stick with the Pali Canon, especially taking the jhanas seriously.
If you are interested in other samatha meditations besides mindfulness of breathing you could look into the other kasiṇa besides air (the breath). For that I recommend the Vimuttimagga and Visuddhimagga, read in unison. Also this booklet here is handy, although ignore when it talks about focusing on the retinal after image: viewtopic.php?f=43&t=39688&p=613786&hil ... na#p613786
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Advice on finding meditation instruction online?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Pulsar wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:12 pm Your best bet would be Ajahn Sona. He solidly stands behind the 4 buddhist jhanas, which are the only jhanas mentioned in the 8-fold path. He brushes aside the Arupas of Upanishadic origins. He takes a firm stand on it, like his teacher Ven. Henepola Gunaratne. What I like about Ven. H. Gunaratne is, long ago in his PhD theses, he admitted the Arupas, but later claimed that he made a mistake.
Yet the suttas and agamas tie them to the annihilationists rather than the eternalist views of the Upanishads.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
BrokenBones
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Re: Advice on finding meditation instruction online?

Post by BrokenBones »

dpcalder wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:04 am In particular, I want to find instruction with a Theravada Buddhist monk, especially one from the Thai Forest tradition. I would prefer one of the traditions that stick with the Pali Canon, especially taking the jhanas seriously.
I think you're on the right track... but don't take the jhanas 'seriously'... the best teachers of jhana tend not to... being happy is half way there.
ToVincent
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Re: Advice on finding meditation instruction online?

Post by ToVincent »

Pulsar wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:12 pm Your best bet would be Ajahn Sona. He solidly stands behind the 4 buddhist jhanas, which are the only jhanas mentioned in the 8-fold path. He brushes aside the Arupas of Upanishadic origins.
...
I tend to reject those, because I see no way of consolidating the teachings of Buddha with Arupas that were prebuddhist.
I agree that the theory of nirvāṇa (aka the four ("first") jhanas), and the theory of the "higher āyatanani", might be difficult to transpose to the teachings of the Buddha. Yet, I don't see why the "higher āyatanani" should be obliterated from the latter.
For the pre or contemporary Buddhist Vedic litterature does adress both the mucyate (release) from saṃsāra (through "nirvāṇa") - as well as the higher āyatanani (more or less exposited and elaborated) - in quite a comparable way.
The fact that in late Vedism, these two realms must be soteriologically united, while in Buddhism they must be escaped, does not change the way things have come to be — which are quite corresponding, broadly speaking.

The problem lies indeed in the fact that some people just refuse to admit that there is in early Buddhism, two distinct realms (as in the Vedic litterature).

A cogent evidence of these realms in Buddhism , is given by the proper translation of some key passages in the suttas/sutras.

Firstly, there is a higher and lower breath - (not a long and short one, as usually incorrectly, grammatically, and stubbornly translated).

Secondly, these two realms (high and low) appear in the following (proper translation):
Ajjhattaṃ vā kāye kāyānupassī viharāhi.
Internally, he fetches distinctively the noticeable body (breath), in the body (breath).
...
Ajjhattaṃ vā vedanāsu vedanānupassī viharāhi
Internally, he fetches distinctively the noticeable feeling, in the feelings.
...
Ajjhattaṃ vā citte cittānupassī viharāhi
Internally, he fetches distinctively the noticeable citta , in the citta.
...
Ajjhattaṃ vā dhammesu dhammānupassī viharāhi
Internally, he fetches distinctively the noticeable phenomena , in the phenomenas.

kāya(m) - kaye = locative singular.
vedanā (f) - vedanāsu = locative plural
citta(nt) - citte = locative singular
dhamma (m) - dhammesu = locative plural

These two correct translations above, are in line with the Śramaṇic and Brāhmaṇic "āraṇyaka style" concepts.

But, before anything else, what imports is to understand the causal (manosañcetana) and conditional (paccayā) steps, that lead to the concatenation of the six senses with their objects - that leads in turn, to appropriate (upādāna) these objects.
That turns out there - this calls,
From the coming forth of that, this originates.
That doesn’t turn out, this does not call,
Due to the cessation of that there, this ceases.

Imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti,
Imassuppādā idaṃ uppajjati.
Imasmiṃ asati idaṃ na hoti,
Imassa nirodhā idaṃ nirujjhati
(Proper translation)
What "turns out there", is the result of the descent of the viññāṇa nidāna in the nāmarūpa nidāna - due to the maintenance of consciousness, (due priorly to manosañcetana) - as seen here:
https://justpaste.it/img/62c4c6b65f2a5b ... 710f2f.png
What "calls" is the saḷāyatana nidāna, via paccayā (the "feedback",so to speak).

The "higher āyatanāni" are part of the forward and reverse process of paṭicca-samuppāda — pretty much in line with the"forward" Vedic concepts — and pretty necessary to understand how to reach the final escape.

As said in other threads, the "higher āyatanāni" have nothing to do with looking after some uncanny powers or states; but more like pleasantly escaping the lower "dukhaful" states, through restraint, subsidence and tranquilization of some unwelcome saṅkhārā.
This might be the reason why they continue to call them "higher jhānas" (as stated here: https://rentry.co/m3inp ).
In any case, the goal is not to reach supernatural powers or states — but again, to agreably and enjoyably, escape ignorance and its development (aka paṭicca-samuppāda).
A bad ontogenesis indeed (so to speak).
.
.
In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
simsapa
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