Meditation and Cannabis

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Ceisiwr »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:04 pm
I don't care to say anything about my own experiences, since I already wrote about them being a bit boring. I mean, all that fuss and jazz, and just for these conditioned states of mind!?
Let me guess, Jhāna-lite right?
Anyway, I observed this monk through a few years and began to understand the meaning, and also listened to some of our most experienced western monks, and the crucial word is sampajañña. And the easiest way to practice this is via the four BV and is conducive to living a worldly life and requires no special conditions for developing wisdom.
Sampajañña, along with satipaṭṭhāna, is for attaining at least access concentration.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Crazy cloud »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:09 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:04 pm
I don't care to say anything about my own experiences, since I already wrote about them being a bit boring. I mean, all that fuss and jazz, and just for these conditioned states of mind!?
Let me guess, Jhāna-lite right?
Anyway, I observed this monk through a few years and began to understand the meaning, and also listened to some of our most experienced western monks, and the crucial word is sampajañña. And the easiest way to practice this is via the four BV and is conducive to living a worldly life and requires no special conditions for developing wisdom.
Sampajañña, along with satipaṭṭhāna, is for attaining at least access concentration.
Who's to judge jhana? As long as it works is fine by me. I don't know how much time and effort is wise or waste on attaining different states, but when I see that people use a lot of effort in quarrels about it, I tend to regard it as wrong practice. If one knows about deep states of mind, one can easily go there in a few seconds, my opinion based on practice the eightfold path, or was it crazycloudism 😇
Whatever one calls the state, as long as one sees clearly impermanence, and more important, cessations of arisings it's sampajanna.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Ceisiwr »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:32 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:09 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:04 pm
I don't care to say anything about my own experiences, since I already wrote about them being a bit boring. I mean, all that fuss and jazz, and just for these conditioned states of mind!?
Let me guess, Jhāna-lite right?
Anyway, I observed this monk through a few years and began to understand the meaning, and also listened to some of our most experienced western monks, and the crucial word is sampajañña. And the easiest way to practice this is via the four BV and is conducive to living a worldly life and requires no special conditions for developing wisdom.
Sampajañña, along with satipaṭṭhāna, is for attaining at least access concentration.
Who's to judge jhana? As long as it works is fine by me. I don't know how much time and effort is wise or waste on attaining different states, but when I see that people use a lot of effort in quarrels about it, I tend to regard it as wrong practice. If one knows about deep states of mind, one can easily go there in a few seconds, my opinion based on practice the eightfold path, or was it crazycloudism 😇
Whatever one calls the state, as long as one sees clearly impermanence, and more important, cessations of arisings it's sampajanna.
I guess Jhāna is whatever we want it to be :?
or was it crazycloudism
Yes.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Crazy cloud »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:36 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:32 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:09 pm

Let me guess, Jhāna-lite right?



Sampajañña, along with satipaṭṭhāna, is for attaining at least access concentration.
Who's to judge jhana? As long as it works is fine by me. I don't know how much time and effort is wise or waste on attaining different states, but when I see that people use a lot of effort in quarrels about it, I tend to regard it as wrong practice. If one knows about deep states of mind, one can easily go there in a few seconds, my opinion based on practice the eightfold path, or was it crazycloudism 😇
Whatever one calls the state, as long as one sees clearly impermanence, and more important, cessations of arisings it's sampajanna.
I guess Jhāna is whatever we want it to be :?
or was it crazycloudism
Yes.

No, its never what we want it to be.

And I like to end this interesting meeting with some wisdom of real crazycloudism:

sick of it whatever it's called sick of the names
I dedicate every pore to what's here
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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bodom
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by bodom »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:44 pm
bodom wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:13 pm
Lately the best meditation I have had by far has been while doing walking meditation at night, outdoors, using AUM as a mantra every eighth step, after consuming approximately one tenth of a gram of relatively potent cannabis.
:thinking:

:anjali:
Our way of using ancient plant medicine to get stoned out of the senses is just idiotic. The way it was meant to be used was to connect to heaven, and gain insight into the mystery of being. So, his micro-dosing of cannabis is in accordance with today's scientific research about how psychedelics can be of use and cure for our profoundly sick societies.

And I doubt that cannabis in these small doses can or will lead to heedlessness ...

:anjali:
That sounds good but is not what the Buddha taught.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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mjaviem
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by mjaviem »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:44 pm
bodom wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:13 pm
Lately the best meditation I have had by far has been while doing walking meditation at night, outdoors, using AUM as a mantra every eighth step, after consuming approximately one tenth of a gram of relatively potent cannabis.
:thinking:

:anjali:
Our way of using ancient plant medicine to get stoned out of the senses is just idiotic. The way it was meant to be used was to connect to heaven, and gain insight into the mystery of being. So, his micro-dosing of cannabis is in accordance with today's scientific research about how psychedelics can be of use and cure for our profoundly sick societies.

And I doubt that cannabis in these small doses can or will lead to heedlessness ...

:anjali:
I think this is not right effort.
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
sunnat
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Post by sunnat »

A footnote in Venerable Ledi Sayadaws 'The Noble Eightfold Path and its factors explained' : 'At a meeting of a Buddhist society, a lecturer was addressing people upon the Five Precepts. Coming to the last one, he commented that as the Buddha had taught the Middle Way, by this precept was meant neither drunkenness, which is one extreme, nor total abstention, the other extreme, but just drinking in moderation. The lecturer does not seem to have reflected that the same standards if applied to the other precepts will be astonishing indeed! Not wholesale murder, nor total abstention from killing, but just killing in moderation!'

Otherwise, the path is about perceiving reality as it is. Not a construct, not induced, not choosen or wished for but the results of being aware of truth as it is.
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Crazy cloud »

bodom wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:47 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:44 pm
bodom wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:13 pm

:thinking:

:anjali:
Our way of using ancient plant medicine to get stoned out of the senses is just idiotic. The way it was meant to be used was to connect to heaven, and gain insight into the mystery of being. So, his micro-dosing of cannabis is in accordance with today's scientific research about how psychedelics can be of use and cure for our profoundly sick societies.

And I doubt that cannabis in these small doses can or will lead to heedlessness ...

:anjali:
That sounds good but is not what the Buddha taught.

:anjali:
And I fully agree with Buddha and his pure views regarding how to access our true nature, which is in accordance with hippocratic oath that states that the doctor should, by all means, try to heal the patient with his or her own means of body, mind and spirit.
Ask any doctor today about the same, and they don't know other ways than some body/mind-controlling substances. Ask them about spirit, and they show you the door.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Crazy cloud »

mjaviem wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:24 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:44 pm
bodom wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:13 pm

:thinking:

:anjali:
Our way of using ancient plant medicine to get stoned out of the senses is just idiotic. The way it was meant to be used was to connect to heaven, and gain insight into the mystery of being. So, his micro-dosing of cannabis is in accordance with today's scientific research about how psychedelics can be of use and cure for our profoundly sick societies.

And I doubt that cannabis in these small doses can or will lead to heedlessness ...

:anjali:
I think this is not right effort.
The right effort is to throw all one got into developing one's wisdom by practising the eightfold path. If one has to use means that some might have their doubts about, one should listen, but as long as one keeps one's integrity and follow the precepts, I don't find anything completely wrong here.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Dharmasherab
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Dharmasherab »

Let me drop this quote from Ajahn Chah. I think this will help to put an end to this discussion as it comes from an Enlightened master.
Drugs can bring about meaningful experiences, but the one who takes a drug has not made causes for such effects. He has just temporarily altered nature, like injecting a monkey with hormones that send him shooting up a tree to pick coconuts. Such experiences may be true but not good or good but not true, whereas Dharma is always both good and true.

Ajahn Chah, Still Forest Pool
“When one does not understand death, life can be very confusing.” - Ajahn Chah
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Crazy cloud »

Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:27 am Let me drop this quote from Ajahn Chah. I think this will help to put an end to this discussion as it comes from an Enlightened master.
Drugs can bring about meaningful experiences, but the one who takes a drug has not made causes for such effects. He has just temporarily altered nature, like injecting a monkey with hormones that send him shooting up a tree to pick coconuts. Such experiences may be true but not good or good but not true, whereas Dharma is always both good and true.

Ajahn Chah, Still Forest Pool
I don't account for any other intentions in this debate but my own, and that is that cannabis can and are used as medicine today. And if you consider research about this plant and its uses since ancient times, it has far more implications than most of us knows, or maybe likes to know about .... So, on the background of my own little knowledge, I say that we already with our practice uses the body's own capability to reach points of being naturally stoned, and even stoned out of our senses (bliss). And the funny thing is that this is all legal, and absolutely in accordance with precepts and Buddha's teachings.

We are to refrain from taking intoxicants that cloud the mind and makes us lose sati. But used as a medicine it is actually a sound requisite, and something we should offer our monastics if we really care for them.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Crazy cloud
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Re:

Post by Crazy cloud »

sunnat wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:08 am A footnote in Venerable Ledi Sayadaws 'The Noble Eightfold Path and its factors explained' : 'At a meeting of a Buddhist society, a lecturer was addressing people upon the Five Precepts. Coming to the last one, he commented that as the Buddha had taught the Middle Way, by this precept was meant neither drunkenness, which is one extreme, nor total abstention, the other extreme, but just drinking in moderation. The lecturer does not seem to have reflected that the same standards if applied to the other precepts will be astonishing indeed! Not wholesale murder, nor total abstention from killing, but just killing in moderation!'

Otherwise, the path is about perceiving reality as it is. Not a construct, not induced, not choosen or wished for but the results of being aware of truth as it is.
One should also consider that precepts start with: Refrain from ... Not: You shall not.
If a homicidal maniac with an axe came to cut down my wife, what should I do? Spread loving kindness or knock him down, or even kill him? The answer is I don't know what I would do but have to trust being aware and mindful at the moment and do my best.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Dharmasherab
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Dharmasherab »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:11 pm that cannabis can and are used as medicine today. And if you consider research about this plant and its uses since ancient times, it has far more implications than most of us knows, or maybe likes to know about
Yes it has medical applications. But this does not imply that it is necessary for enlightenment
Crazy cloud wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:11 pm And the funny thing is that this is all legal, and absolutely in accordance with precepts and Buddha's teachings.


Actually it is not in line with the Buddha's teachings. Whiles I am not entirely against the legalisation of cannabis, it also doesnt mean that Buddhism actively endorses it. If the interpretation that abstinence from all intoxicants is taken up as the 5th Precept then taking cannabis also comes under that give that it is a mind altering substance.
Crazy cloud wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:11 pm But used as a medicine it is actually a sound requisite, and something we should offer our monastics if we really care for them.
That is within the grounds of therapeutic benefit for a particular cause. For example I am aware that cannabinoids can reduce Parkinson's symptoms. But this doesnt entirely mean that it is to be freely distributed without the cause that warrants its application from a therapeutic point of view.
“When one does not understand death, life can be very confusing.” - Ajahn Chah
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Crazy cloud »

Dharmasherab wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:19 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:11 pm that cannabis can and are used as medicine today. And if you consider research about this plant and its uses since ancient times, it has far more implications than most of us knows, or maybe likes to know about
Yes it has medical applications. But this does not imply that it is necessary for enlightenment
Who would really know what's necessary? Maybe an enlightened being could, and maybe that being only could say it was the sum of all of his struggles and experiences up to the point of full release ...?!
I believe that one needs access to one's fullest capacity as a human to gain release from suffering, and if it meant that I had to put in some substance that wasn't allowed by society, but didn't either cloud the mind (no break of precept), should I then care at all or should I push on?

In the highest sense, who am I responsible for if not for myself?

And it didn't have to be cannabis, it could as well be amphetamine, which is a medication for ADHD/ADD.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Pondera
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Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Pondera »

Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:27 am Let me drop this quote from Ajahn Chah. I think this will help to put an end to this discussion as it comes from an Enlightened master.
Drugs can bring about meaningful experiences, but the one who takes a drug has not made causes for such effects. He has just temporarily altered nature, like injecting a monkey with hormones that send him shooting up a tree to pick coconuts. Such experiences may be true but not good or good but not true, whereas Dharma is always both good and true.

Ajahn Chah, Still Forest Pool
Hormonal, tree climbing monkeys 🐒? How much for 2 grams?
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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