Meditation and Cannabis

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Crazy cloud
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Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Crazy cloud »

bodom wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:13 pm
Lately the best meditation I have had by far has been while doing walking meditation at night, outdoors, using AUM as a mantra every eighth step, after consuming approximately one tenth of a gram of relatively potent cannabis.
:thinking:

:anjali:
Our way of using ancient plant medicine to get stoned out of the senses is just idiotic. The way it was meant to be used was to connect to heaven, and gain insight into the mystery of being. So, his micro-dosing of cannabis is in accordance with today's scientific research about how psychedelics can be of use and cure for our profoundly sick societies.

And I doubt that cannabis in these small doses can or will lead to heedlessness ...

:anjali:
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Ceisiwr »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:44 pm
bodom wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:13 pm
Lately the best meditation I have had by far has been while doing walking meditation at night, outdoors, using AUM as a mantra every eighth step, after consuming approximately one tenth of a gram of relatively potent cannabis.
:thinking:

:anjali:
Our way of using ancient plant medicine to get stoned out of the senses is just idiotic. The way it was meant to be used was to connect to heaven, and gain insight into the mystery of being. So, his micro-dosing of cannabis is in accordance with today's scientific research about how psychedelics can be of use and cure for our profoundly sick societies.

And I doubt that cannabis in these small doses can or will lead to heedlessness ...

:anjali:
It’s giving into lust for sense objects, the very opposite of renunciation. Good way to cut yourself off from Jhana.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Crazy cloud »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:49 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:44 pm
bodom wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:13 pm

:thinking:

:anjali:
Our way of using ancient plant medicine to get stoned out of the senses is just idiotic. The way it was meant to be used was to connect to heaven, and gain insight into the mystery of being. So, his micro-dosing of cannabis is in accordance with today's scientific research about how psychedelics can be of use and cure for our profoundly sick societies.

And I doubt that cannabis in these small doses can or will lead to heedlessness ...

:anjali:
It’s giving into lust for sense objects, the very opposite of renunciation. Good way to cut yourself off from Jhana.
That is dependent on the intention behind using it, as a skilful mean, or a temporary experience that has no aim for developing clear seeing.
Lack of sleep, a couple of cups of strong coffee, fasting and so, can also bring about the same.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Ceisiwr
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Location: Wales

Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Ceisiwr »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:28 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:49 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:44 pm

Our way of using ancient plant medicine to get stoned out of the senses is just idiotic. The way it was meant to be used was to connect to heaven, and gain insight into the mystery of being. So, his micro-dosing of cannabis is in accordance with today's scientific research about how psychedelics can be of use and cure for our profoundly sick societies.

And I doubt that cannabis in these small doses can or will lead to heedlessness ...

:anjali:
It’s giving into lust for sense objects, the very opposite of renunciation. Good way to cut yourself off from Jhana.
That is dependent on the intention behind using it, as a skilful mean, or a temporary experience that has no aim for developing clear seeing.
Lack of sleep, a couple of cups of strong coffee, fasting and so, can also bring about the same.
Quite wrong I’m afraid. I mean, yes you can have experiences whilst high but this has nothing to do with what the Buddha was getting at. Jhana is seclusion from objects of the 5 senses. Taking cannabis is the opposite of that.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Crazy cloud »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:31 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:28 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:49 pm

It’s giving into lust for sense objects, the very opposite of renunciation. Good way to cut yourself off from Jhana.
That is dependent on the intention behind using it, as a skilful mean, or a temporary experience that has no aim for developing clear seeing.
Lack of sleep, a couple of cups of strong coffee, fasting and so, can also bring about the same.
Quite wrong I’m afraid. I mean, yes you can have experiences whilst high but this has nothing to do with what the Buddha was getting at. Jhana is seclusion from objects of the 5 senses. Taking cannabis is the opposite of that.
You are maybe too focused on the concept of Jhana,, which has been debated since the time of the Buddha. Microdosing of cannabis is a mean that is interesting because it can lead to insights. The practice itself has two main courses, that of wisdom and that of supernormal abilities. And some substances can be used for the latter, and with the right amount and assistance, it can open up the personal mind.
Jhana can lead to the deathless, but there are a few more aspects in the teachings that also ends there.

It's not a matter of getting high, but fine tuning of the mind.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Ceisiwr »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:20 pm
You are maybe too focused on the concept of Jhana
You are right. How completely ridiculous of me, a Buddhist, to be focused on Jhāna and on a Buddhist chat site too!
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22409
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Ceisiwr »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:20 pm
Microdosing of cannabis is a mean that is interesting because it can lead to insights. The practice itself has two main courses, that of wisdom and that of supernormal abilities. And some substances can be used for the latter, and with the right amount and assistance, it can open up the personal mind.
Jhana can lead to the deathless, but there are a few more aspects in the teachings that also ends there.

It's not a matter of getting high, but fine tuning of the mind.
Where did the Buddha allow for this? Please provide a quote and reference.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
User avatar
Crazy cloud
Posts: 930
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am

Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Crazy cloud »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:26 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:20 pm
Microdosing of cannabis is a mean that is interesting because it can lead to insights. The practice itself has two main courses, that of wisdom and that of supernormal abilities. And some substances can be used for the latter, and with the right amount and assistance, it can open up the personal mind.
Jhana can lead to the deathless, but there are a few more aspects in the teachings that also ends there.

It's not a matter of getting high, but fine tuning of the mind.
Where did the Buddha allow for this? Please provide a quote and reference.
I'm very aware of the fifth precept. And as before mentioned, there are many ways to fine-tune the mind, both with substances or physical efforts.
So, as long as one follows the precepts, there shouldn't be anything wrong to try it. Then one gets more wisdom, and that is the point for practice.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Ceisiwr »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:41 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:26 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:20 pm
Microdosing of cannabis is a mean that is interesting because it can lead to insights. The practice itself has two main courses, that of wisdom and that of supernormal abilities. And some substances can be used for the latter, and with the right amount and assistance, it can open up the personal mind.
Jhana can lead to the deathless, but there are a few more aspects in the teachings that also ends there.

It's not a matter of getting high, but fine tuning of the mind.
Where did the Buddha allow for this? Please provide a quote and reference.
I'm very aware of the fifth precept. And as before mentioned, there are many ways to fine-tune the mind, both with substances or physical efforts.
So, as long as one follows the precepts, there shouldn't be anything wrong to try it. Then one gets more wisdom, and that is the point for practice.
Which means not consuming cannabis, unless it’s medicinal.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
User avatar
Crazy cloud
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Crazy cloud »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:49 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:41 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:26 pm

Where did the Buddha allow for this? Please provide a quote and reference.
I'm very aware of the fifth precept. And as before mentioned, there are many ways to fine-tune the mind, both with substances or physical efforts.
So, as long as one follows the precepts, there shouldn't be anything wrong to try it. Then one gets more wisdom, and that is the point for practice.
Which means not consuming cannabis, unless it’s medicinal.
Who's responsible for my health if not me?
And when it comes to my spiritual health, I must rely on my awareness and intuitive intelligence.
Going to the doctor could actually be more harmful.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Ceisiwr
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Location: Wales

Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Ceisiwr »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:02 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:49 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:41 pm

I'm very aware of the fifth precept. And as before mentioned, there are many ways to fine-tune the mind, both with substances or physical efforts.
So, as long as one follows the precepts, there shouldn't be anything wrong to try it. Then one gets more wisdom, and that is the point for practice.
Which means not consuming cannabis, unless it’s medicinal.
Who's responsible for my health if not me?
And when it comes to my spiritual health, I must rely on my awareness and intuitive intelligence.
Going to the doctor could actually be more harmful.
That is very good CrazyCloudism but bad Buddhadhamma
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
User avatar
Crazy cloud
Posts: 930
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am

Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Crazy cloud »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:03 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:02 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:49 pm

Which means not consuming cannabis, unless it’s medicinal.
Who's responsible for my health if not me?
And when it comes to my spiritual health, I must rely on my awareness and intuitive intelligence.
Going to the doctor could actually be more harmful.
That is very good CrazyCloudism but bad Buddhadhamma
👍
I loved this, and from now whenever somebody ask why I'm so calm and cuddly, I will say, It's all about CrazyCloudism. And when they ask what the heck is that, I'll just 🔥 away and fall back 🤣
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
User avatar
Crazy cloud
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Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am

Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Crazy cloud »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:26 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:20 pm
You are maybe too focused on the concept of Jhana
You are right. How completely ridiculous of me, a Buddhist, to be focused on Jhāna and on a Buddhist chat site too!
As far as I understand the teachings, are the four Brahma Viharas mentioned in a greater number, and emphasised much more than Jhanas? And all the fuss about these conditioned states might cause more hindrances to ones practice. I like jhana myself, but I also find them quite boring, and because they are just another way of escaping the world. I'm very grateful for the words from skilled monk and good friend when I was picking up the teaching, and had this to say about nimittas and jhanas. Nimitta is small toys, and Jhanas are big toys. I agree with his teaching.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22409
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Ceisiwr »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:22 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:26 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:20 pm
You are maybe too focused on the concept of Jhana
You are right. How completely ridiculous of me, a Buddhist, to be focused on Jhāna and on a Buddhist chat site too!
As far as I understand the teachings, are the four Brahma Viharas mentioned in a greater number, and emphasised much more than Jhanas? And all the fuss about these conditioned states might cause more hindrances to ones practice. I like jhana myself, but I also find them quite boring, and because they are just another way of escaping the world. I'm very grateful for the words from skilled monk and good friend when I was picking up the teaching, and had this to say about nimittas and jhanas. Nimitta is small toys, and Jhanas are big toys. I agree with his teaching.
Personally I wouldn't pay much attention to monks who call the Jhānā "toys" and who would discourage me from practicing for them which, after all, is what satipaṭṭhāna is all about.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
User avatar
Crazy cloud
Posts: 930
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am

Re: Meditation and Cannabis

Post by Crazy cloud »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:31 pm
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:22 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:26 pm

You are right. How completely ridiculous of me, a Buddhist, to be focused on Jhāna and on a Buddhist chat site too!
As far as I understand the teachings, are the four Brahma Viharas mentioned in a greater number, and emphasised much more than Jhanas? And all the fuss about these conditioned states might cause more hindrances to ones practice. I like jhana myself, but I also find them quite boring, and because they are just another way of escaping the world. I'm very grateful for the words from skilled monk and good friend when I was picking up the teaching, and had this to say about nimittas and jhanas. Nimitta is small toys, and Jhanas are big toys. I agree with his teaching.
Personally, I wouldn't pay much attention to monks who call the Jhānā "toys" and who would discourage me from practising for them which, after all, is what satipaṭṭhāna is all about.
When I heard him say this, I didn't ask him to elaborate because both are silent types. But I've read and listened to other monks and practitioners who had quite strong opinions about deep absorption. I don't care to say anything about my own experiences, since I already wrote about them being a bit boring. I mean, all that fuss and jazz, and just for these conditioned states of mind!?

Anyway, I observed this monk through a few years and began to understand the meaning, and also listened to some of our most experienced western monks, and the crucial word is sampajañña. And the easiest way to practice this is via the four BV and is conducive to living a worldly life and requires no special conditions for developing wisdom.

I do believe the monk chose those words because he suspected that I might become attached to doing absorption and forget to develop the seven other aspects. And he didn't tell me what to do; it was up to myself choosing to observe and keep on watching the mind.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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