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Re: 108 recitations of Itipiso a day

Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:18 pm
by dharmacorps
I've found chanting to be really helpful for practice and calming the mind. I am suspicious of generalized prescriptions for chanting (e.g. do this this many times and you will become a sotapanna). Chanting while afraid of the dark makes sense as skillful means. I was told by a Tibetan teacher the only way to begin practice of Buddhism was to do 100,000 prostrations to a Buddharupa. Needless to say, I passed on that.

Re: 108 recitations of Itipiso a day

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:28 pm
by frank k
It is Buddha anussati if you reflect on the meaning of the phrase as you chant it, and that understanding leads you to peace and joy.
AN 6.10 is about how to use skilfull thoughts to feed the fire of jhana by giving it fuel to arouse piti and passaddhi.
If you're just reciting a formula in a foreign language and have no idea what it means or you know what it means but you're just vocalizing and not thinking about it, it's just using a vocal mantra to drive out extraneous thinking.
mikenz66 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:58 pm
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:10 pm It can definitely be a kind of Buddhānusati.

:heart:
It is Buddhānusati, as taught in the suttas:
https://suttacentral.net/an6.10/en/sujato

:heart:
Mike

Re: 108 recitations of Itipiso a day

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:49 pm
by Spiny Norman
tamdrin wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:44 am
Srilankaputra wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:15 am
JamesTheGiant wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:47 am it looks purely devotional
I'm not sure, I haven't tried it. But I am pretty sure most people will forget even which count they are on by the fourth or fifth repetition. It may be possible for a discerning individual to learn a few things about Viriya, Sati and Samadhi.
That is why you need a mala to do this type of practice.
Yes, a mala is required. Just curious, does anyone know the significance of the number 108 here? It seems to be an auspicious number for repetitions throughout the Dharmic traditions, but I'm not sure why.

Re: 108 recitations of Itipiso a day

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:44 pm
by mikenz66
frank k wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:28 pm AN 6.10 is about how to use skilfull thoughts to feed the fire of jhana by giving it fuel to arouse piti and passaddhi.
Of course. I find reciting those words, and reflecting on the meaning, to be very helpful.

:heart:
Mike

Re: 108 recitations of Itipiso a day

Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:13 am
by tamdrin
dharmacorps wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:18 pm I've found chanting to be really helpful for practice and calming the mind. I am suspicious of generalized prescriptions for chanting (e.g. do this this many times and you will become a sotapanna). Chanting while afraid of the dark makes sense as skillful means. I was told by a Tibetan teacher the only way to begin practice of Buddhism was to do 100,000 prostrations to a Buddharupa. Needless to say, I passed on that.
I don't think any Theravada teacher would ever say this. However, although it is not the norm, I have heard a couple of Tibetan teachers say "recite such and such mantra a certain number of times and you will attain liberation". If I remember correctly the number was 100,000,000. It was a longer mantra too... so this would have to be done over many years on solitary retreat. Who knows what the results would be?

One Tibetan monk who did many years of solitary retreat (around 30) recited om mani padme hum 1.2 billion times as part of his practice.

Again, the whole thing about doing a mantra such and such number of times is not really promoted even in Tibetan Buddhism but numbers are used as a way to motivate people to reach a certain goal and increase their diligence.

Re: 108 recitations of Itipiso a day

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:34 am
by Dhammanando
Spiny Norman wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:49 pm Just curious, does anyone know the significance of the number 108 here? It seems to be an auspicious number for repetitions throughout the Dharmic traditions, but I'm not sure why.
The Wiki entry for 108 gives the significance of this number in the three Dharmic traditions, though strangely omits the sole use of the number in the Pali Tipiṭaka, namely, the 18 occurrences of craving multiplied by 2 (internal and external) multiplied by 3 (past, future and present) = 108. They are expounded in brief in the Taṇhā­jālinīsutta and in detail in the Abhidhamma's Vibhanga.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_(number)

https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/an4.199

https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/vb17

From the Vibhanga:
Summary

Eighteen occurrences of craving in connection with internal (aggregates); eighteen occurrences of craving in connection with external (aggregates); (taking) these together collectively and briefly there are thirty-six occurrences of craving; thus, thirty-six past occurrences of craving; thirty-six future occurrences of craving; thirty-six present occurrences of craving; (taking) these together collectively and briefly there are one-hundred-and-eight occurrences of craving.

In Detail

Therein what are “eighteen occurrences of craving in connection with internal (aggregates)”? There is, “I am”; there is, “I am such an one”; there is, “I am also”; there is, “I am otherwise”; there is, “I shall be”; there is, “I shall be such an one”; there is, “I also shall be”; there is, “I shall be otherwise”; there is, “I am eternal”; there is, “I am not eternal”; there is, “I may be”; there is, “I may be such an one”; there is, “I also may be”; there is, “I may be otherwise”; there is, “would that I may be”; there is, “would that I may be such an one”; there is, “would that I also may be”; there is, “would that I may be otherwise”.

And how is there, “I am”? Making no distinction with regard to any state (either) form, feeling, perception, volitional activities (or) consciousness, one gets the wish, “I am”; one gets the conceit, “I am”; one gets the wrong view, “l am”; when this happens there are these obsessions, “I am such an one” or “I am also” or “I am otherwise”. (1)

And how is there, “I am such an one”? “I am a ruler” or “I am a Brahmin” or “I am a merchant” or “I am an artisan” or “I am an householder” or “I am an ascetic” or “I am a god” or “I am an human being” or “I have material form” or “I have no material form” or “I have perception” or “I have non-perception” or “I have “neither perception nor non-perception”. Thus there is, “I am such an one”. (2)

And how is there, “I am also”? Comparing another person (with himself), “As he is a ruler, so also am I a ruler” or “as he is a Brahmin, so also am I a Brahmin” or “as he is a merchant, so also am I a merchant” or “as he is an artisan, so also am I an artisan” or “as he is an householder, so also am I an householder” or “as he is an ascetic, so also am I an ascetic” or “as he is a god, so also am I a god” or “as he is an human being, so also am I an human being” or “as he has material form, so also have I material form” or “as he has no material form, so also have I no material form” or “as he has perception, so also have I perception” or “as he has non-perception, so also have I non-perception” or “as he has “neither perception nor non-perception”, so also have I “neither perception nor non-perception”. Thus there is, “I am also”. (3)

And how is there, “I am otherwise”? Comparing another person (with himself), “As he is a ruler, I am not a ruler in the same way” or “as he is a Brahmin, I am not a Brahmin in the same way” or “as he is a merchant, I am not a merchant in the same way” or “as he is an artisan, I am not an artisan in the same way” or “as he is an householder, I am not an householder in the same way” or “as he is an ascetic, I am not an ascetic in the same way” or “as he is a god, I am not a god in the same way” or “as he is an human being, I am not an human being in the same way” or “as he has material form, I do not have material form in the same way” or “as he has “no material form”, I do not have “no material form” in the same way” or “as he has perception, I do not have perception in the same way” or “as he has non-perception, I do not have non-perception in the same way” or “as he has “neither perception nor non-perception”, I do not have “neither perception nor non-perception” in the same way”. Thus there is, “I am otherwise”. (4)

And how is there, “I shall be”? Making no distinction with regard to any state (either) form, feeling, perception, volitional activities (or) consciousness, one gets the wish, “I shall be”; one gets the conceit, “I shall be”; one gets the wrong view, “I shall be”; when this happens there are these obsessions, “I shall be such an one” or “I also shall be” or “I shall be otherwise”. (5)

And how is there, “I shall be such an one”? “I shall be a ruler” or “I shall be a Brahmin” or “I shall be a merchant” or “I shall be an artisan” or “I shall be an householder” or “I shall be an ascetic” or “I shall be a god” or “I shall be an human being” or “I shall have material form” or “I shall have no material form” or “I shall have perception” or “I shall have non-perception” or “I shall have “neither perception nor non-perception”. Thus there is, “I shall be otherwise”. (6)

And how is there, “I also shall be”? Comparing another person (with himself), “As he will be a ruler, so also shall I be a ruler” or “as he will be a Brahmin, so also shall I be a Brahmin” or Intermediate items as earlier. “as he will have “neither perception nor non-perception”, so also shall I have “neither perception nor non-perception”. Thus there is, “I also shall be”. (7)

And how is there, “I shall be otherwise”? Comparing another person (with himself), “As he will be a ruler, I shall not be a ruler in the same way” or “as he will be a Brahmin, I shall not be a Brahmin in the same way” or Intermediate items, as earlier. “as he will have “neither perception nor non-perception”, I shall not have “neither perception nor non-perception” in the same way”. Thus there is, “I shall be otherwise”. (8)

And how is there, “I am eternal”? Making no distinction with regard to any state (either) form, feeling, perception, volitional activities (or) consciousness, (there is), “I am permanent, I am durable, I am eternal, I am not subject to change”. Thus there is, “I am eternal”. (9)
And how is there,“I am not eternal”? Making no distinction with regard to any state (either) form, feeling, perception, volitional activities (or) consciousness, (there is), “I shall be annihilated, I shall be destroyed, I shall not be”. Thus there is, “I am not eternal”. (10)

And how is there,“I may be”? Making no distinction with regard to any state (either) form, feeling, perception, volitional activities (or) consciousness, one gets the wish, “I may be”; one gets the conceit, “I may be”; one gets the wrong view, “I may be”; when this happens there are these obsessions, “I may be such an one” or “I also may be” or “I may be otherwise”. (11)

And how is there, “I may be such an one”? “I may be a ruler” or “I may be a Brahmin” or “I may be a merchant” or “I may be an artisan” or “I may be an householder” or “I maybe an ascetic” or “I may be a god” or “I may be an human being” or “I may have material form” or “I may have no material form” or “I may have perception” or “I may have non-perception” or “I may have “neither perception nor non-perception ”. Thus there is, “I may be such an one”. (12)

And how is there, “I also may be”? Comparing another person (with himself), “As he may become a ruler, so also I may become a ruler” or “as he may become a Brahmin, so also I may become a Brahmin” or Intermediate items as earlier. “as he may have “neither perception nor non-perception”, so also I may have “neither perception nor non-perception ”. Thus there is, “I also may be”. (13)

And how is there, “I may be otherwise”? Comparing another person (with himself), “Should he be a ruler, I might not be a ruler in the same way” or “should he be a Brahmin, I might not be a Brahmin in the same way” or Intermediate items as earlier. “should he have “neither perception nor non-perception”, I might not have “neither perception nor non-perception “in the same way”. Thus there is, “I may be otherwise”. (14)

And how is there, “Would that I may be”? Making no distinction with regard to any state (either) form, feeling, perception, volitional activities (or) consciousness, one gets the wish, “Would that I may be”; one gets the conceit, “would that I may be”; one gets the wrong view, “would that I may be”; when this happens there are these obsessions, “would that I may be such an one” or “would that I also may be” or “would that I may be otherwise”. (15)

And how is there, “Would that I may be such an one”? “Would that I may be a ruler” or “would that I may be a Brahmin” or “would that I may be a merchant” or “would that I may be an artisan” or “would that I may be an householder” or “would that I may be an ascetic” or “would that I may be a god” or “would that I may be an human being” or “would that I may have material form” or “would that I may have no material form” or “would that I may have perception” or “would that I may have non-perception” or “would that I may have “neither perception nor non-perception”. Thus there is, “Would that I may be such an one”. (16)

And how is there, “Would that I also may be”? Comparing another person (with himself), “As he may become a ruler, would that I also may become a ruler” or “as he may become a Brahmin, would that I also may become a Brahmin” or Intermediate items as earlier. “as he may have “neither perception nor non-perception”, would that I also may have “neither perception nor non-perception”. Thus there is, “Would that I also may be”. (17)

And how is there, “Would that I may be otherwise”? Comparing another person (with himself), “As he may become a ruler, would that I may not become a ruler in the same way” or “as he may become a Brahmin, would that I may not become a Brahmin in the same way” or Intermediate items as earlier. “as he may have “neither perception nor non-perception”, would that I may not have “neither perception nor non-perception” in the same way”. Thus there is, “Would that I may be otherwise”. (18)

These are eighteen occurrences of craving in connection with internal (aggregates).

Therein what are “eighteen occurrences of craving in connection with external (aggregates)”?

Etc., etc.