Kumara wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:20 am
Are those based on how the jhanas is described in the Suttas?
Yes, consider AN10.72, Kantaka Sutta:
At one time The Buddha was abiding in the gabled hall in the Great Forest in Vesāli with many well-known elder disciple bhikkhus such as Ven. Cāla, Ven. Upacāla, Ven. Kukkuṭa, Ven. Kaḷimbha, Ven. Nikaṭa, Ven. Kaṭissa, and other well-known elder bhikkhus. At that time many well-known Licchavīs coming to the Great Forest to see The Buddha, making much noise. Then it occurred to those venerable ones: “These well-known Licchavīs coming to the Great Forest to see The Buddha, making much noise. The Buddha has said that sound (sadda) is a thorn to dhayanas. What if we go to the Gosiṅga Forest. It has less noise, not so crowded, we will have a pleasant abiding.” Then those venerable ones went to the Gosiṅga Forest.
Then The Buddha asked the whereabouts of those elder bhikkhus, and they told him what had happened. And The Buddha addressed the bhikkhus: “Good! Good! Bhikkhus, the great disciples have said it correctly and rightly. Sound is a thorn to dhyanas. These ten are thorns. What ten?
[1]For seclusion, company is a thorn. [2]For developing the sign of loathsomeness, an agreeable sign is a thorn. [3]For sense restrain, sight seeing is a thorn. [4]For leading a holy life, the behaviour of a woman is a torn. [5] For the first dhyana, sounds are a thorn. [6]For the second dhyana, initial and sustained applications of mind are a thorn. [7]For the third dhyana, rapture is a thorn. [8]For the fourth dhyana, inhalation and exhalation is a thorn. [9]For the attainment of cessation, perceptions and feelings are a
thorn. [10]Greed, hatred, and delusion are a thorn.
Bhikkhus, live without thorns, free from thorns. Bhikkhus, the arahants are without thorns, free from thorns.”
To me this clearly implies at least some level of absorption - otherwise it simply makes no sense at all to try to "live without thorns, free from thorns", such as in monasteries or secluded places. If the jhana practice was really about aware observation of sense objects without a trace of immersion, the Buddha´s advice might as well have been something like "go to the market, expose yourself to all the sense impressions and observe how they are anicca, dukkha, anatta". Yet his advice always begins with something like "go to the forest, to the root of a tree, to an abandoned building"...
There is also the story of Mogallana (somewhere in the Vinaya, I guess, can´t find it right now, sorry), where he claims to have heard a sound in 4th jhana. Other monks accuse him of making a false statement, which clearly indicates they would assume that hearing a sound
was not possible in the 4th jhana. Buddha then clarifies that Mogallana didn´t lie but briefly fell out of the jhana. His attainment was said to be impure, which conversely indicates that the pure 4th jhana is divorced from the sense of hearing.
Kumara wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:20 am
Does the Vism.j. depend on cultivating satipatthana?
Absolutely - how could one achieve deep one-pointed concentration on an object (which is, moreover, so subtle) if one hadn´t developed sati to a great degree before? If you want to exclude all distractions, you have to be immediately aware of them arising in the first place. If you´re trying to keep your attention at the point where the air touches the nostril, for instance, you have to be very adept at noticing distractions as soon as they arise, otherwise your mind won´t "lock" in the right place and there will be no unification. It´s not only about sati - what about the right effort to deal with the hindrances? During your meditation, you have to know what to do when a hindrance arises - there are 4 strategies you have to rehearse all the time so it becomes natural.
Kumara wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:20 am
In the Suttas, the definition of indriyasamvara (sense-restraint), which I prefer to translate literally is "governing of the faculties", is about not grasping. It's not about having no contact. We obviously can't live our lives without being in contact with sense objects, right?
Of course, the contact itself is not the problem - if it were so, the shortcut to Nibbana would be to poke out your eyes, cut off your tongue and undergo lobotomy. On the other hand, the propensity towards indulgence is so deep-rooted that the Buddha repeatedly warns against it and exhorts us to shut off
unnecessary sense contacts. Consider, among many many others, the advice in MN51: Kandarakasutta:
Once they’ve gone forth, they take up the training and livelihood of the mendicants. (...) They give up unchastity. They are celibate, set apart, avoiding the common practice of sex. (...) They eat in one part of the day, abstaining from eating at night and food at the wrong time. They avoid dancing, singing, music, and seeing shows. They avoid beautifying and adorning themselves with garlands, perfumes, and makeup. They avoid high and luxurious beds. They avoid receiving gold and money, raw grains, raw meat, women and girls, male and female bondservants, goats and sheep, chickens and pigs, elephants, cows, horses, and mares, and fields and land.
The emphasis here is on
avoiding. As a monastic yourself, you must know better than me how many rules you undetook to live by. Surely many of them are about limiting contact with sense objects. Isn´t this, after all, the whole point of monasticism? To vastly reduce the drag that excessive sense contact has on consciousness?