What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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SilaSamadhi8
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What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by SilaSamadhi8 »

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gT1rCJ ... sp=sharing

The link above is the public draft by Kumāra Bhikkhu entitled "What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi".
I'm sharing because I searched the title on the forum and noticed that apparently nobody shared it already, but if anyone did then feel free to delete it.

About the book itself, I'm halfway through and I'm really liking and found the arguments to be compelling.
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nirodh27
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by nirodh27 »

Hi SilaSamadhi, I've actually quoted the book in some posts here in the previous weeks.

Very nice find, I loved that book very much. If you want to share what you liked in particular, please do!
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by mikenz66 »

Thanks for that. I think this has been around for a while in various forms.

It is a little odd that Ven Kumāra does not appear to address the views any of the modern teachers that interpret jhāna in the suttas as an absorbed state (Vens Brahm, Sujato, Analayo, etc...). Perhaps I'm missing something, or perhaps he just wants to avoid being argumentative.

:heart:
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Ceisiwr
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by Ceisiwr »

mikenz66 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:53 pm Thanks for that. I think this has been around for a while in various forms.

It is a little odd that Ven Kumāra does not appear to address the views any of the modern teachers that interpret jhāna in the suttas as an absorbed state (Vens Brahm, Sujato, Analayo, etc...). Perhaps I'm missing something, or perhaps he just wants to avoid being argumentative.

:heart:
Mike
I found it a bit disappointing.
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
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Kumara
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by Kumara »

SilaSamadhi8 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:59 pm https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gT1rCJ ... sp=sharing

The link above is the public draft by Kumāra Bhikkhu entitled "What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi"....

About the book itself, I'm halfway through and I'm really liking and found the arguments to be compelling.
Thanks for sharing it and for the kind words.
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SilaSamadhi8
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by SilaSamadhi8 »

Kumara wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:00 am
SilaSamadhi8 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:59 pm https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gT1rCJ ... sp=sharing

The link above is the public draft by Kumāra Bhikkhu entitled "What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi"....

About the book itself, I'm halfway through and I'm really liking and found the arguments to be compelling.
Thanks for sharing it and for the kind words.

I finished it 3 days ago and this is the best essay on comparative and Early Buddhism meditation (Jhāna) practice I have read.


After that I changed my practice significantly and I'm currently reading a lot of Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu's work and his teachers (Thai Forest Ajahns) since their practice is quite in line with your essay.


Let's just say this... not sure if it's the loving-kindness or what but my family has already noticed some changes in me 😁


Thank you Bhante 🙏
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Kumara
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by Kumara »

SilaSamadhi8 wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:39 pm I finished it 3 days ago and this is the best essay on comparative and Early Buddhism meditation (Jhāna) practice I have read.

After that I changed my practice significantly and I'm currently reading a lot of Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu's work and his teachers (Thai Forest Ajahns) since their practice is quite in line with your essay.

Let's just say this... not sure if it's the loving-kindness or what but my family has already noticed some changes in me 😁

Thank you Bhante 🙏
Wow... That's fast! 😊 You're welcome.
Maybe you can ask them for specifics.
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SilaSamadhi8
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by SilaSamadhi8 »

Kumara wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:13 am
SilaSamadhi8 wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:39 pm I finished it 3 days ago and this is the best essay on comparative and Early Buddhism meditation (Jhāna) practice I have read.

After that I changed my practice significantly and I'm currently reading a lot of Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu's work and his teachers (Thai Forest Ajahns) since their practice is quite in line with your essay.

Let's just say this... not sure if it's the loving-kindness or what but my family has already noticed some changes in me 😁

Thank you Bhante 🙏
Wow... That's fast! 😊 You're welcome.
Maybe you can ask them for specifics.

Also, if you are comfortable with sharing, do you practice any specific method of meditation?
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Kumara
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by Kumara »

SilaSamadhi8 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:02 pm Also, if you are comfortable with sharing, do you practice any specific method of meditation?
No.

"Method" needs to change as the condition changes, just like how we drive needs to change according to the situation. We don't drive on a smooth straight road the same way as we do on a bumpy road downhill.

But if you ask me who's my teacher, the answer is in the book: U Tejaniya. See https://ashintejaniya.org
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by MySpace »

Dear Ven. Kumara, I just read your book "WHAT YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW ABOUT
JHĀNA &
SAMĀDHI and would like to thank you for the insights.

Changing secluded or withdrawn into separate from really makes a huge difference.
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

Kumara wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:58 am "Method" needs to change as the condition changes, just like how we drive needs to change according to the situation. We don't drive on a smooth straight road the same way as we do on a bumpy road downhill.

But if you ask me who's my teacher, the answer is in the book: U Tejaniya. See https://ashintejaniya.org
Thank you for this work.
I practice (try to) the method of Ajahn Lee/Thanissaro and have for some years recognized that the Visudhimagga approach taught by those like Ajahn Brahm is different and not really aligned with the Suttas.
This supports that view and provides further clarifications and detailed analysis.
I hope that Western students of dhamma are not misled by the variety of approaches being taught and this work becomes widely read and published, and becomes one of the classic introductory texts on meditation.
Unfortunately some of these teachers have large following and media however.

I might suggest (entirely my own thought) that if this work finds a major publisher for more mainstream distribution, that the book perhaps could be titled 'what you might not know about Buddhist Jhana and samadhi' to catch a wider readership.

Again thank you
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by Ceisiwr »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:49 am I practice (try to) the method of Ajahn Lee/Thanissaro and have for some years recognized that the Visudhimagga approach taught by those like Ajahn Brahm is different and not really aligned with the Suttas.
And this is based on?
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by MySpace »

I do have doubts on the concentration approach of meditation that produces immense bliss.

I heard that after such blissful meditation, someone could look at a lump of excretion and perceive it as pure and attractive. Now is this wisdom or more delusion on top of ordinary confused mind?

In addition, if mind is so blissful, how does one observe dukkha? It is then taught that one needs to get out of the Jhanic blissful state to start investigation. Isn't it counterintuitive?

Personally, I have encountered very blissful state before. I could feel so contented that I thought that I could just live by my breathing alone forever. However, I don't know how it occurs, why it ends and what insights it brings about.

Furthermore, I've not seen any instructions of observing bright lights so as to get into Jhana in the sutta.

This book really clarifies a lot of such issues with the changes in interpretations and translations.
Don’t neglect wisdom
preserve truth
cultivate relinquishment
and train only for peace ~ MN140
:anjali:
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:51 am
Cause_and_Effect wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:49 am I practice (try to) the method of Ajahn Lee/Thanissaro and have for some years recognized that the Visudhimagga approach taught by those like Ajahn Brahm is different and not really aligned with the Suttas.
And this is based on?
Maybe read the Venerables book.
In short however, the sutta analogies for jhana all imply a full body awareness while Brahm and Visudhimagga teach loss of bodily awareness in jhana.

Also Vism. teaches Samantha and Vipassana as two different practices when suttas say they are actually overlapping qualities of mind that can be emphasized as part of one practice.
Ajahn Brahm is in agreement with this part though.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
BrokenBones
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Re: What You Might Not Know about Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu

Post by BrokenBones »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:51 am
Cause_and_Effect wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:49 am I practice (try to) the method of Ajahn Lee/Thanissaro and have for some years recognized that the Visudhimagga approach taught by those like Ajahn Brahm is different and not really aligned with the Suttas.
And this is based on?
I think it's based on a clear reading of the suttas but we all have different ideas on what is clear and what is not.
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