Increasing Meditation Time

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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actorrerum
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Increasing Meditation Time

Post by actorrerum »

Hello everyone. I'm still fairly new to this forum, so I apologize if I messed up somewhere in the creation and/or posting of this topic.

Anyways, as you can see from the subject, I'm wondering about increasing my meditation time. I've read Mindfulness in Plain English, and it says to sit for however long you are comfortable; and to increase your sitting time by five minutes or so when you feel comfortable. My problem though is that I don't imagine it's really that simple. If, for example, you were comfortable meditating for 20 minutes but consistently had poor concentration during your sessions, I doubt most experienced meditators would say to increase your sitting time. Am I wrong?

Last month I was meditating for 17 minutes, and I was able to concentrate on my breath and thoughts roughly half of each meditation session. Just today I decided to increase my meditation time to 20 minutes, and I was able to concentrate on my breath and thoughts for maybe half that time or a little less; and I felt comfortable overall.

So, in short, I'm wondering what the recommended ratio is with time concentrated to time meditated for increasing one's sitting time. I'm sure there are different answers depending on who you ask, though.

Thank you
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Sam Vara
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Re: Increasing Meditation Time

Post by Sam Vara »

actorrerum wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:07 pm Hello everyone. I'm still fairly new to this forum, so I apologize if I messed up somewhere in the creation and/or posting of this topic.

Anyways, as you can see from the subject, I'm wondering about increasing my meditation time. I've read Mindfulness in Plain English, and it says to sit for however long you are comfortable; and to increase your sitting time by five minutes or so when you feel comfortable. My problem though is that I don't imagine it's really that simple. If, for example, you were comfortable meditating for 20 minutes but consistently had poor concentration during your sessions, I doubt most experienced meditators would say to increase your sitting time. Am I wrong?

Last month I was meditating for 17 minutes, and I was able to concentrate on my breath and thoughts roughly half of each meditation session. Just today I decided to increase my meditation time to 20 minutes, and I was able to concentrate on my breath and thoughts for maybe half that time or a little less; and I felt comfortable overall.

So, in short, I'm wondering what the recommended ratio is with time concentrated to time meditated for increasing one's sitting time. I'm sure there are different answers depending on who you ask, though.

Thank you
I take it that by "comfortable" you mean physical comfort? The ability to sit without pain distracting you?

If so, then I think it's perfectly OK to sit for as long as you remain physically comfortable, even if you can't sustain mental concentration for all that period; or even for a small part of that period!

It depends on what you mean by "concentration", as this might be the ability to keep the mind on your chosen meditation object (eg, the breath, or the touch of the breath at one spot, etc.); or the sense that one's mind is becoming more settled and more focussed. Either way, if your mind is not doing exactly what you want it to for long periods within the sitting, that seems perfectly OK. Lots of very experienced meditators find that they sometimes have difficulty in getting their mind to settle down, or even to stick on the meditation object. Some days, depending on one's prior state of mind and a myriad of other conditions, the mind goes all over the place, and seems to want to do anything but attend to the object. But I would keep sitting, and observe this, providing you still remain physically comfortable. Half an hour of that type of sitting is not too much. Why? Because you can learn something about the nature of the mind ("Who is in control here? If it's my mind, why won't it do what I want it to? Do I really want it to, or is the fact that it is wandering to something else pointing to the fact that I want to think about that something else?", etc.) Also, the mind will sometimes take some time to settle, and will spend 25 minutes wandering in a frustrating manner, and then suddenly drop into a state of calm concentration. If you give up too early, you would have missed that...

Overall, keep reviewing whether your technique is working for you, but if as you say you are able to concentrate on your breath and thoughts for ten out of the twenty minutes, then I would increase the sitting time a bit. Things may improve with a longer sitting, and you might learn something interesting about how your mind works.

Good luck with it, anyway!
actorrerum
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Re: Increasing Meditation Time

Post by actorrerum »

Sam Vara wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:20 pm
actorrerum wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:07 pm ...
I take it that by "comfortable" you mean physical comfort? The ability to sit without pain distracting you?

If so, then I think it's perfectly OK to sit for as long as you remain physically comfortable, even if you can't sustain mental concentration for all that period; or even for a small part of that period!

It depends on what you mean by "concentration", as this might be the ability to keep the mind on your chosen meditation object (eg, the breath, or the touch of the breath at one spot, etc.); or the sense that one's mind is becoming more settled and more focussed. Either way, if your mind is not doing exactly what you want it to for long periods within the sitting, that seems perfectly OK. Lots of very experienced meditators find that they sometimes have difficulty in getting their mind to settle down, or even to stick on the meditation object. Some days, depending on one's prior state of mind and a myriad of other conditions, the mind goes all over the place, and seems to want to do anything but attend to the object. But I would keep sitting, and observe this, providing you still remain physically comfortable. Half an hour of that type of sitting is not too much. Why? Because you can learn something about the nature of the mind ("Who is in control here? If it's my mind, why won't it do what I want it to? Do I really want it to, or is the fact that it is wandering to something else pointing to the fact that I want to think about that something else?", etc.) Also, the mind will sometimes take some time to settle, and will spend 25 minutes wandering in a frustrating manner, and then suddenly drop into a state of calm concentration. If you give up too early, you would have missed that...

Overall, keep reviewing whether your technique is working for you, but if as you say you are able to concentrate on your breath and thoughts for ten out of the twenty minutes, then I would increase the sitting time a bit. Things may improve with a longer sitting, and you might learn something interesting about how your mind works.

Good luck with it, anyway!
Thank you for your reply and questions.

I could've been clearer in my original post. Yes, I mean physically comfortable: having no physical pain while sitting; or at least so little or minor pain that you rarely, if ever, notice it.

When I talk about concentration, I mean the ability to keep focus of a single object - whatever that might be. Specifically with my breath and my thoughts, I try to first be aware and notice the sensations of my breath leaving my nostrils, and then coming into my nostrils. And if my concentration of that breaks and something else pops into my head - a thought or a different sensation - I try to be aware of the sensation or emotion(s) associated with it, and where it stems from.

Thank you for your insight and your advice. I will definitely take it into consideration going forward in my meditation practice.

Best.
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: Increasing Meditation Time

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

actorrerum wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:07 pm ~
I would say quality over quantity. If you sustain concentration for half the sitting time, then you can increase by 5 or 10 minutes but don't lose the quality. In other words if you find that you increase the time but the amount of concentration drops below half, remain at this increased length of sitting but no more until you can concentrate for at least half the time or more again.
This way you will gradually increase sitting time without losing quality and in fact concentration should improve over time.

In general I have found that sitting time isn't necessarily the main measure you are looking at.
As you progress you can set a minimum time to sit, but you want to look to see if you can reach roughly the same subjective level of concentration each time. When you can do this it becomes a baseline to reach for each sitting not just looking at simply the time of the sit.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
actorrerum
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Re: Increasing Meditation Time

Post by actorrerum »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:07 am
actorrerum wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:07 pm ~
I would say quality over quantity. If you sustain concentration for half the sitting time, then you can increase by 5 or 10 minutes but don't lose the quality. In other words if you find that you increase the time but the amount of concentration drops below half, remain at this increased length of sitting but no more until you can concentrate for at least half the time or more again.
This way you will gradually increase sitting time without losing quality and in fact concentration should improve over time.

In general I have found that sitting time isn't necessarily the main measure you are looking at.
As you progress you can set a minimum time to sit, but you want to look to see if you can reach roughly the same subjective level of concentration each time. When you can do this it becomes a baseline to reach for each sitting not just looking at simply the time of the sit.
Yes, quality over quantity, I believe that makes sense. I have meditated off and on for a few years, but in my most recent stretch I have tried to set a specific time for each session and see how much I can consistently (if at all) concentrate for that duration for a month; if I can concentrate for half of that time (or more), I increase my time a little. Thank you for your advice.

Best.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Increasing Meditation Time

Post by Ceisiwr »

actorrerum wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:07 pm ...
I would say longer is generally better, but there is no specific amount of time. It will naturally get longer and longer the more you meditate, although you may hit some walls along the way. Small moves.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
actorrerum
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Re: Increasing Meditation Time

Post by actorrerum »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:36 pm
... Small moves.
Yeah I'm trying to be okay with small moves, or even no moves. Though I would be lying if I said that I didn't have any goals in meditation. I was told (indirectly) that you should be able to fairly consistently meditate for an hour or more before going to a retreat, which I intend to do; and I have other reasons for increasing my time as well. So, I am trying to make sure that I'm approaching that goal of increasing my time properly. But, like Cause_and_Effect said, "quality of quantity."

Thank you for your reply.
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