Choosing a meditation technique

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
joladhamma
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Choosing a meditation technique

Post by joladhamma »

Dear online sangha,

I wonder what you think about meditation techniques. I have studied several techniques; been on goenka retreat and mahasi retreat and in my ”home sangha” in the city where I live there is vipassana but also with slightly different touch. I am also keen to practice anapanasati. Do you think it is a bad ideato practice several techniques at the same time? Is it important to pick just one or can I vary them?

I have the impression that the Buddha tough several different techniques so it should make sense for me to do more than one as wheel. I mean, the Buddha tought anapanasati and sathipatthana mindfulness as well as contemplations and metta for example.



With metta,
Joel
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bodom
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Re: Choosing a meditation technique

Post by bodom »

You may find this short booklet helpful:
Can any one method of vipassana meditation claim superiority over another? Then again, is it true that absorption concentration is an absolute prerequisite to vipassana? These are some of the perennial debates that haunt Buddhists walking diverse roads to liberation from samsara.

In Coping with a Handful of Leaves, Ven Aggacitta touches on these issues with reference to the Pali scriptures and contemporary experiences. He reminds us that we should not allow our differences to become a source of disagreement and a cause of disunity. Rather, he urges us to practise unconditional love, mutual respect and sympathetic joy as a means of transmuting our discriminative energy into positive qualities such as strength and unity within the richness of diversity.

Coping with a Handful of Leaves does not only encourage yogis to be brave enough to try other methods of meditation if the first one they have been introduced to is not suitable. It would also help to bring about a paradigm shift in the mental attitude of yogis, irrespective of their methods of meditation.
https://sasanarakkha.org/2004/07/01/cop ... of-leaves/

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Goofaholix
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Re: Choosing a meditation technique

Post by Goofaholix »

Its good to try different techniques, and to experiment within the techniques, what you shouldn't do is flip flop each time the going gets tough with that technique.

Try to learn the technique properly before you experiment.

Ultimately when you are experienced the technique itself doesn't matter so much, unless its getting in the way by being too clunky, it's how you work with and understand the mind and your attitude that is important.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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mjaviem
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Re: Choosing a meditation technique

Post by mjaviem »

Ajahn Chah wrote: A: It is like going into town. One can approach from the north, from the south-east, from many roads. Often these systems just differ outwardly. Whether you walk one way or another, fast or slow, if you are mindful, it is all the same. There is one essential point that all good practice must eventually come to - not clinging. In the end, all meditation systems must be let go of. Neither can one cling to the teacher. If a system leads to relinquishment, to not clinging, then it is correct practice.
...
Anyway, I think we only need to master Ānāpānassati.
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Choosing a meditation technique

Post by Ceisiwr »

joladhamma wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:31 pm Dear online sangha,

I wonder what you think about meditation techniques. I have studied several techniques; been on goenka retreat and mahasi retreat and in my ”home sangha” in the city where I live there is vipassana but also with slightly different touch. I am also keen to practice anapanasati. Do you think it is a bad ideato practice several techniques at the same time? Is it important to pick just one or can I vary them?

I have the impression that the Buddha tough several different techniques so it should make sense for me to do more than one as wheel. I mean, the Buddha tought anapanasati and sathipatthana mindfulness as well as contemplations and metta for example.



With metta,
Joel
If a certain hindrance is particularly strong then working with an appropriate meditation can help. For example, loving-kindness to diminish hate. The key to achieving the Jhānas is to abandon said hindrances. This begins with virtue, sense restrain, mindfulness and clear comprehension which starves the hindrances and nourishes the enlightenment factors. Then, when you sit down to meditate you build on this sense restraint and mindful awareness by becoming mindfully aware of the body via the breath. This is the 1st aspect of satipaṭṭhāna. When meditating certain feelings, mind states and dhammas such as the hindrances or awakening factors will be present. If a particular hindrance is strong, use a certain meditation to overcome it. All of this is making use of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th aspect of satipaṭṭhāna (i agree with Ven. Sujato regarding his argument that the 4th satipaṭṭhāna originally only included the hindrances and 7 awakening factors). Once the hindrances have been abandoned and the awakening factors nourished then Jhāna and insight will occur. Personally, for me, uddhacca-kukkucca is usually the problem. I have a tendency to think too much about the meditation instead of actually meditating and so mindfulness of breathing is my usual meditation, but sometimes kasiṇa instead.

That would be my advice.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
joladhamma
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Re: Choosing a meditation technique

Post by joladhamma »

Thanks for a lot of good advice. I asked my teacher in my home sangha the same question tonight. She said that having more than one tool is good. But you know that at the Goenka-retreat for example, they tell you to only practice their technique. The Mahasis didn't say it as explicitly but I also got the impression that they didn't want me to do anything else. My teacher there said that if I tried other techniques it was fine but eventually I would have to choose one and stick with it.

I think I will choose more than one and stick with it. :woohoo:
justindesilva
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Re: Choosing a meditation technique

Post by justindesilva »

joladhamma wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:24 pm Thanks for a lot of good advice. I asked my teacher in my home sangha the same question tonight. She said that having more than one tool is good. But you know that at the Goenka-retreat for example, they tell you to only practice their technique. The Mahasis didn't say it as explicitly but I also got the impression that they didn't want me to do anything else. My teacher there said that if I tried other techniques it was fine but eventually I would have to choose one and stick with it.

I think I will choose more than one and stick with it. :woohoo:
What ever meditation , of all meditations samatha or anapanasathi is the best to start with in my experience. One can convert anapanasati to vipassana at any time and if necessary with guidance. Further if one trains to live with yoniso manasikara or attention of thoughts here and now one will automatically fall in to samma sati, which is a result of meditation and a step of 8fnp.
Ontheway
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Re: Choosing a meditation technique

Post by Ontheway »

Personally, for now, I prefer this method and do this often:

Girimānandasutta
Katamā cānanda, aniccasaññā? Idhānanda, bhikkhu araññagato vā rukkhamūlagato vā suññāgāragato vā iti paṭisañcikkhati: ‘rūpaṁ aniccaṁ, vedanā aniccā, saññā aniccā, saṅkhārā aniccā, viññāṇaṁ aniccan’ti. Iti imesu pañcasu upādānakkhandhesu aniccānupassī viharati. Ayaṁ vuccatānanda, aniccasaññā.

“And what, Ānanda, is the perception of impermanence? Here, having gone to the forest, to the foot of a tree, or to an empty hut, a bhikkhu reflects thus: ‘Form is impermanent, feeling is impermanent, perception is impermanent, volitional activities are impermanent, consciousness is impermanent.’ Thus he dwells contemplating impermanence in these five aggregates subject to clinging. This is called the perception of impermanence."

Katamā cānanda, anattasaññā? Idhānanda, bhikkhu araññagato vā rukkhamūlagato vā suññāgāragato vā iti paṭisañcikkhati: ‘cakkhu anattā, rūpā anattā, sotaṁ anattā, saddā anattā, ghānaṁ anattā, gandhā anattā, jivhā anattā, rasā anattā, kāyā anattā, phoṭṭhabbā anattā, mano anattā, dhammā anattā’ti. Iti imesu chasu ajjhattikabāhiresu āyatanesu anattānupassī viharati. Ayaṁ vuccatānanda, anattasaññā.

"And what, Ānanda, is the perception of non-self? Here, having gone to the forest, to the foot of a tree, or to an empty hut, a bhikkhu reflects thus: ‘The eye is non-self, forms are non-self; the ear is non-self, sounds are non-self; the nose is non-self, odors are non-self; the tongue is non-self, tastes are non-self; the body is non-self, tactile objects are non-self; the mind is non-self, mental phenomena are non-self.’ Thus he dwells contemplating non-self in these six internal and external sense bases. This is called the perception of non-self."
I tried Metta Bhavana before, not much success. The Thai style "Buddho, Buddho..." doesn't work for me too. Asubhanussati is quite good, but I think it involves a lot of virtualization of body parts in my mind.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Pondera
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Re: Choosing a meditation technique

Post by Pondera »

For me the practice is about letting go of pain. Our heart of hearts clings to the three marks of ill, impermanence, and not self.

From there we cling to perceptions. Perceptions further trap the emotions of the heart.

Emotions of the heart stop us from feeling the out pour of sukha in the body. My experience with sukha is that the body becomes heavy and calm.

But if that does not arise because the conditions are not brought about then the mind is tense.

When the mind is tense our muscles are tense.

When our muscles are tense our memory starts to backlog. It does not flow.

When this is the case, we cannot have faith. Instead we feel anxiety.

So anxiety is the end product of clinging to the three marks.

Removing that anxiety at the very source (ie. the bottom of the heart) is how I understand “faith”.

From faith pours joy; from joy rapture; from rapture tranquility; from tranquility sukha; from sukha samadhi; from samadhi; knowledge and vision of the marks vs. The khandas; from knowledge disenchantment; from disenchantment dispassion; from dispassion release; from release knowledge and vision of ending.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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SDC
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Re: Choosing a meditation technique

Post by SDC »

SN 47.3 wrote: “Let the Blessed One teach me the Dhamma in brief! Let the Fortunate One teach me the Dhamma in brief! Perhaps I may understand the meaning of the Blessed One’s statement; perhaps I may become an heir of the Blessed One’s statement.”

“Well then, bhikkhu, purify the very starting point of wholesome states. And what is the starting point of wholesome states? Virtue that is well purified and view that is straight. Then, bhikkhu, when your virtue is well purified and your view straight, based upon virtue, established upon virtue, you should develop the four establishments of mindfulness in a threefold way.
Without purified virtue and mindfulness, it will be very easy to get caught up in the glamour of “higher states” of meditation (whatever that means). Anyone who wants to meditate should start with the precepts. If your physical behavior isn’t contained, your mental effort is wasted on thought exercise that isn’t necessarily going to bring about any understanding.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: Choosing a meditation technique

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

SDC wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:26 pm Anyone who wants to meditate should start with the precepts. If your physical behavior isn’t contained, your mental effort is wasted on thought exercise that isn’t necessarily going to bring about any understanding.
:goodpost:

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:02 pm Personally, for me, uddhacca-kukkucca is usually the problem. I have a tendency to think too much about the meditation instead of actually meditating and so mindfulness of breathing is my usual meditation, but sometimes kasiṇa instead.
Stop reading abhidhamma will resolve that
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
Bundokji
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Re: Choosing a meditation technique

Post by Bundokji »

I think the teachings help us see causality as a technique. I do not think the Buddha taught any particular technique.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
sunnat
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also : MN 149

Post by sunnat »

also : MN149

“… knowing & seeing the eye as it actually is present, knowing & seeing forms... consciousness at the eye... contact at the eye as they actually are present, knowing & seeing whatever arises conditioned through contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain, or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — as it actually is present, one is not infatuated with the eye... forms... consciousness at the eye... contact at the eye... whatever arises conditioned by contact at the eye and is experienced as pleasure, pain, or neither-pleasure-nor-pain.

"For him — uninfatuated, unattached, unconfused, remaining focused on their drawbacks — the five clinging-aggregates head toward future diminution.



Any view belonging to one who has come to be like this is his right view. Any resolve, his right resolve. Any effort, his right effort. Any mindfulness, his right mindfulness. Any concentration, his right concentration: just as earlier his actions, speech, & livelihood were already well-purified. Thus for him, having thus developed the noble eightfold path, the four frames of reference go to the culmination of their development. “…etc
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retrofuturist
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Re: Choosing a meditation technique

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Bundokji wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:24 pm I do not think the Buddha taught any particular technique.
I agree.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
BrokenBones
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Re: Choosing a meditation technique

Post by BrokenBones »

retrofuturist wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:56 am Greetings,
Bundokji wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:24 pm I do not think the Buddha taught any particular technique.
I agree.

Metta,
Paul. :)
I agree; at least not a technique like the 19th & 20th century innovators would recognise as such.

People don't see the wood for the trees...

Each sutta is a 'technique'.
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