Giftedness and meditation

[maniture_85]

Is it possible for "gifted" people to attain samadhi/insight results far quicker than "not gifted"?

[Sam Vara]

Is it possible for "gifted" people to attain samadhi/insight results far quicker than "not gifted"?

I'm not sure what you mean by "gifted" here. There appear to be some people who make claims consistent with them attaining samādhi or insights far quicker than other people, and one can see this as a "gift". I remember many years ago when I was in a class of typical western middle class educated meditators, and a man just wandered in off the streets knowing nothing about Buddhism and having never meditated before. After his first session he reported accessing amazing levels of calm and bliss. The teacher said that he was "naturally gifted". Who knows? Some people might have a kammic predisposition towards these things.

If by "gifted" you mean gifted in other areas, other talents - such that intelligent talented people are automatically good meditators - then I don't think so.

[maniture_85]

Is it possible for "gifted" people to attain samadhi/insight results far quicker than "not gifted"?

I'm not sure what you mean by "gifted" here. There appear to be some people who make claims consistent with them attaining samādhi or insights far quicker than other people, and one can see this as a "gift". I remember many years ago when I was in a class of typical western middle class educated meditators, and a man just wandered in off the streets knowing nothing about Buddhism and having never meditated before. After his first session he reported accessing amazing levels of calm and bliss. The teacher said that he was "naturally gifted". Who knows? Some people might have a kammic predisposition towards these things.

If by "gifted" you mean gifted in other areas, other talents - such that intelligent talented people are automatically good meditators - then I don't think so.

Thanks for your balanced answer, Sam Vara.
As gifted i intended the western meaning: IQ around 130 or above, unusual empathic and spiritual capacities. It is a tricky argument, since people tent to confuse brillian people with giftedness. Giftedness has precise manifestations, some of which cannot be measured but are frequently reported as experiences. Experiencing to see meaning where for many there's no meaning. For example, "seeing" the future of a person may happen, in the sense that a critical character defect is seen by the gifted, not noted by the person or by others. The ignorance is seen, the future suffering is seen, and an helplessness sensation can be experienced.
If the talent is used for something measurable, the talent may be recognized by an external analysis or by a brilliant person.
If the talent is used for something NOT measurable, the talent will probably be misrecognized causing suffering in many ways: often these people can be judjed as arrogant, because others sistematcally can't see what he sees. Often, those people are subject to envy and does not feel free to express themselves.

What you describe looks like "a miracle" to me. Just wanted to know if for some, getting results can take far less time, but still comparable to others. Like 1/10 or something like this.

[santa100]

Is it possible for "gifted" people to attain samadhi/insight results far quicker than "not gifted"?

Well, the meaning of "gifted" is relative in the context of Buddhism. For someone being gifted in math, music, meditation, etc.. from the Buddhist angle, their gifts didn't simply just appear from thin air. They probably had to work their behind off to accumulate such level of proficiency since countless lives ago. The Buddha attained His 1st Jhana while He was still a young boy! But that meant He's been cultivating it since many many births ago. So from that perspective, a brilliant person with very high IQ might do very well in the specific domain of their interest, but if they had never cultivated Samadhi since countless lives ago, then they're just as good as others with average IQ when it comes to meditation attainments.

[Ontheway]

It's the merit accumulated in past lives.
Sometimes it can be helpful in meditation, sometimes not quite.

[maniture_85]

Is it possible for "gifted" people to attain samadhi/insight results far quicker than "not gifted"?

Well, the meaning of "gifted" is relative in the context of Buddhism. For someone being gifted in math, music, meditation, etc.. from the Buddhist angle, their gifts didn't simply just appear from thin air. They probably had to work their behind off to accumulate such level of proficiency since countless lives ago. The Buddha attained His 1st Jhana while He was still a young boy! But that meant He's been cultivating it since many many births ago. So from that perspective, a brilliant person with very high IQ might do very well in the specific domain of their interest, but if they had never cultivated Samadhi since countless lives ago, then they're just as good as others with average IQ when it comes to meditation attainments.

Very nice answer.
It looks that giftedness actually identifies not only high IQ or a very specific talent, but also higher empathy, higher sensitivity to injustice, fairness, honesty. I have not much informations, but they literally look to "be different" like their corresponding unlucky "slow people" on the other side of the gaussian distribution curve.

[santa100]

It looks that giftedness actually identifies not only high IQ or a very specific talent, but also higher empathy

You probably meant EQ instead of IQ. And I think you're right, IQ might have less of an effect on Dhamma cultivation than EQ. The story of Ven. Culapanthaka in the Dhammapada already proved that. According to the Comy., Ven. Culapanthaka's IQ must've been pretty far left off the Bell curve 'cuz he "could not even memorize one verse in four months". And yet, with lots of discipline, diligence, and mindfulness, he was able to attain arahantship, which kinda give all of us who have been thinking pretty highly of ourselves in terms of intelligence quite some big embarrassment!

[maniture_85]

It looks that giftedness actually identifies not only high IQ or a very specific talent, but also higher empathy

You probably meant EQ instead of IQ. And I think you're right, IQ might have less of an effect on Dhamma cultivation than EQ. The story of Ven. Culapanthaka in the Dhammapada already proved that. According to the Comy., Ven. Culapanthaka's IQ must've been pretty far left off the Bell curve 'cuz he "could not even memorize one verse in four months". And yet, with lots of discipline, diligence, and mindfulness, he was able to attain arahantship, which kinda give all of us who have been thinking pretty highly of ourselves in terms of intelligence quite some big embarrassment!

Wow, nice story, i will take a look.
I'm talking about IQ, as it is commonly confused as "giftedness", while actually it's just part of it ( like EQ )