Some further thoughts

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Ceisiwr
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Some further thoughts

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I have had some further thoughts regarding the 8 liberations, bases of mastery and the Kasiṇas. I wasn't fully convinced of the connection between the practices that I set out here: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=42281. I went over more material again, such as the Paṭisambhidāmagga, and referred to the Mettāsahagata sutta (SN 46.54). I'm somewhat convinced that this
May I dwell perceiving the repulsive in the unrepulsive,’ he dwells perceiving the repulsive therein. If he wishes: ‘May I dwell perceiving the unrepulsive in the repulsive,’ he dwells perceiving the unrepulsive therein. If he wishes: ‘May I dwell perceiving the repulsive in the unrepulsive and in the repulsive,’ he dwells perceiving the repulsive therein. If he wishes: ‘May I dwell perceiving the unrepulsive in the repulsive and in the unrepulsive,’ he dwells perceiving the unrepulsive therein. If he wishes: ‘Avoiding both the unrepulsive and the repulsive, may I dwell equanimously, mindful and clearly comprehending,’ then he dwells therein equanimously, mindful and clearly comprehending. Or else he enters and dwells in the deliverance of the beautiful. Bhikkhus, the liberation of mind by lovingkindness has the beautiful as its culmination, I say, for a wise bhikkhu here who has not penetrated to a superior liberation.
relates to the first 3 liberations and the 8 bases of mastery, which in turn connects us with the kasiṇas. Since then there seems to be a connection between these practices I wondered if an integrated practice could be found between them. Here are some of my rough thoughts, with another table to go with it :jumping:

The Practice
One contemplates their own body internally, focusing upon the elements via element meditation or colours by way of foulness of the body meditation. They then apply this to external forms, in order to overcome lust or hate. They see that the earth element inside, as an example, is shared with forms outside thus seeing the earth element as a totality. They see the earth element internally and externally. This is the 1st base of mastery. It is similar to Mahā Tissa in the Visuddhimagga who, when a beautiful woman came by, focused solely on the bones of her teeth and so only saw a skeleton walking. Here however it is the elements or colour kasiṇas which are used. These are developed, making it apply to all equally. This is then the 2nd base of mastery. Both bases of mastery being mastered, the 1st liberation is fulfilled. The meditator then contemplates the form kasiṇas purely externally, without any notion of their body. This entails absorption and fulfils the 2nd base of mastery. In turn the 2nd of the 8 liberations has been fulfilled. One then focuses on the beautiful experience of seeing all forms through the same kasiṇa, thus overcoming all lust and hate. This fulfils loving kindness and the 3rd liberation. With the form kasiṇas mastered, and equanimity established via the 4th Jhana, the meditator can then enter the formless attainments. This fulfils the remaining 8 liberations and the remaining 3 brahmavihārās.

What I have outlined above is similar to the Theravādin version as outlined in the Atthasālinī and the Sarvāstivāda-Vaibhāṣika one as outlined in the Mahāprajñāpāramitā-śāstra but it also has differences. The absorption here is also less Theravādin and more Sarvāstivādin, but still without an experience of the body and so unlike the Sautrāntika/Non-absorbed view of Jhāna.
Attachments
Kasina and Brahama etc.jpg
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Some further thoughts

Post by Ceisiwr »

In writing this I was also reminded of the Dārukkhandha sutta
So I have heard. At one time Venerable Sāriputta was staying near Rājagaha, on the Vulture’s Peak Mountain.

Then Venerable Sāriputta robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, descended the Vulture’s Peak together with several mendicants. At a certain spot he saw a large tree trunk, and he addressed the mendicants, “Reverends, do you see this large tree trunk?”

“Yes, reverend.”

“If they wanted to, a mendicant with psychic powers who has mastered their mind could determine this tree trunk to be nothing but earth. Why is that? Because the earth element exists in the tree trunk. Relying on that a mendicant with psychic powers could determine it to be nothing but earth. If they wanted to, a mendicant with psychic powers who has mastered their mind could determine this tree trunk to be nothing but water. … Or they could determine it to be nothing but fire … Or they could determine it to be nothing but air … Or they could determine it to be nothing but beautiful … Or they could determine it to be nothing but ugly. Why is that? Because the element of ugliness exists in the tree trunk. Relying on that a mendicant with psychic powers could determine it to be nothing but ugly.”
https://suttacentral.net/an6.41/en/suja ... ript=latin

I think this is possibly alluding to the 8 bases of mastery and kasiṇas.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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