Sotāpanna: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Re: Sotāpanna: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha

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Hi friends,

To obtain the fruit of stream entry and break the fetter of sakkāya-diṭṭhi in addition to the fetters of vicikicchā and sīlabbata-parāmāsa, faith followers and Dhamma followers must study and truly understand the five aggregates (not just nama-rupa, which does not include vinnana), contemplate them, and see them as they actually are with right wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’ The difference between a stream enterer and the other three types of noble disciples (once returner, non-returner, and arahants) is that stream enterers have just arrived at the true understanding of the five aggregates but have not yet removed the clinging to them, while once returners and non-returners have removed such clinging to different degrees, and arahants have completely severed such clinging.

Only stream winners and above should teach others, but many teachers are or were deluded to believe that they were stream enterers or above when they haven't truly understood the five aggregates.

MN 35:

“But in what way is a disciple of the Master Gotama one who carries out his instruction, who responds to his advice, who has crossed beyond doubt, become free from perplexity, gained intrepidity, and become independent of others in the Teacher’s Dispensation?” [This is the definition of a stream enterer.]

“Here, Aggivessana, any kind of material form whatever, whether past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near—a disciple of mine sees all material form as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’ Any kind of feeling whatever…Any kind of perception whatever…Any kind of volitional formations whatever…Any kind of consciousness whatever, whether past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near—a disciple of mine sees all consciousness as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’ It is in this way that a disciple of mine is one who carries out my instruction, who responds to my advice, who has crossed beyond doubt, become free from perplexity, gained intrepidity, and become independent of others in the Teacher’s Dispensation.”

“Master Gotama, in what way is a bhikkhu an arahant with taints destroyed, one who has lived the holy life, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, reached his own goal, destroyed the fetters of being, and is completely liberated through final knowledge?”

“Here, Aggivessana, any kind of material form whatever, whether past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near—a bhikkhu has seen all material form as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self,’ and through not clinging he is liberated. Any kind of feeling whatever…Any kind of perception whatever…Any kind of volitional formations whatever …Any kind of consciousness whatever, whether past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near—a bhikkhu has seen all consciousness as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self,’ and through not clinging he is liberated. It is in this way that a bhikkhu is an arahant with taints destroyed, one who has lived the holy life, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, reached his own goal, destroyed the fetters of being, and is completely liberated through final knowledge.

“When a bhikkhu’s mind is thus liberated, he possesses three unsurpassable qualities: unsurpassable vision, unsurpassable practice, and unsurpassable deliverance.378 When a bhikkhu is thus liberated, he still honours, respects, reveres, and venerates the Tathāgata thus: ‘The Blessed One is enlightened and he teaches the Dhamma for the sake of enlightenment. The Blessed One is tamed and he teaches the Dhamma for taming oneself. The Blessed One is at peace and he teaches the Dhamma for the sake of peace. The Blessed One has crossed over and he teaches the Dhamma for crossing over. The Blessed One has attained Nibbāna and he teaches the Dhamma for attaining Nibbāna.’”

Studying and contemplating the six sense fields as taught in MN 146 also helps.

MN 146:
...
"When they were seated, the venerable Nandaka told the bhikkhunīs:
... “Sisters, what do you think? Is the eye permanent or impermanent?” —“Impermanent, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?”—“Suffering, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?”—“No, venerable sir.”
“Sisters, what do you think? Is the ear....the nose...the tongue...the body...the mind [the mind is only a sense faculty] permanent or impermanent?”—“Impermanent, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?”—“Suffering, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?”—“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because, venerable sir, we have already seen this well as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘These six internal bases are impermanent.’”

“Good, good, sisters! So it is with a noble disciple who sees this as it actually is with proper wisdom.
“Sisters, what do you think? Are forms…sounds…odours… flavours…tangibles…mind-objects permanent or impermanent?” —“Impermanent, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?”—“Suffering, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?”—“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because, venerable sir, we have already seen this well as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘These six external bases are impermanent.’”
“Good, good, sisters! So it is with a noble disciple who sees this as it actually is with proper wisdom.
“Sisters, what do you think? Is eye-consciousness… ear-consciousness…nose-consciousness…tongue-consciousness… body-consciousness…mind-consciousness permanent or impermanent?” —“Impermanent, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?”—“Suffering, venerable sir.”— “Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?”—“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because, venerable sir, we have already seen this well as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘These six classes of consciousness are impermanent.’”
“Good, good, sisters! So it is with a noble disciple who sees this as it actually is with proper wisdom.
“Sisters, suppose an oil-lamp is burning: its oil is impermanent and subject to change, its wick is impermanent and subject to change, its flame is impermanent and subject to change, and its radiance is impermanent and subject to change. Now would anyone be speaking rightly who spoke thus: ‘While this oil-lamp is burning, its oil, wick, and flame are impermanent and subject to change, but its radiance is permanent, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change’?”
“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because, venerable sir, while that oil-lamp is burning, its oil, wick, and flame are impermanent and subject to change, so its radiance must be impermanent and subject to change.”
“So too, sisters, would anyone be speaking rightly who spoke thus: ‘These six internal bases are impermanent and subject to change, but the pleasant, painful, or neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling that one experiences in dependence upon the six internal bases is permanent, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change’?”
“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because each feeling arises in dependence upon its corresponding condition, and with the cessation of its corresponding condition, the feeling ceases.”
“Good, good, sisters! So it is with a noble disciple who sees this as it actually is with proper wisdom.
“Sisters, suppose a great tree is standing possessed of heartwood: its root is impermanent and subject to change, its trunk is impermanent and subject to change, its branches and foliage are impermanent and subject to change, and its shadow is impermanent and subject to change. Now would anyone be speaking rightly who spoke thus: ‘The root, trunk, branches, and foliage of this great tree standing possessed of heartwood are impermanent and subject to change, but its shadow is permanent, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change’?”
“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because, venerable sir, the root, trunk, branches, and foliage of this great tree standing possessed of heartwood are impermanent and subject to change, so its shadow must be impermanent and subject to change.”
“So too, sisters, would anyone be speaking rightly who spoke thus: ‘These six external bases are impermanent and subject to change, but the pleasant, painful, or neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling that one experiences in dependence upon the six external bases is permanent, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change’?”
“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because each feeling arises in dependence upon its corresponding condition, and with the cessation of its corresponding condition, the feeling ceases.”

“Good, good, sisters! So it is with a noble disciple who sees this as it actually is with proper wisdom.
“Sisters, suppose a skilled butcher or his apprentice were to kill a cow and carve it up with a sharp butcher’s knife. Without damaging the inner mass of flesh (six internal bases)and without damaging the outer hide (six external bases), he would cut, sever, and carve away the inner tendons, sinews, and ligaments (delight and lust / inner defilements, fetters, and bonds) with the sharp butcher’s knife (noble wisdom). Then having cut, severed, and carved all this away, he would remove the outer hide and cover the cow again with that same hide. Would he be speaking rightly if he were to say: ‘This cow is joined to this hide just as it was before’?”
“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because if that skilled butcher or his apprentice were to kill a cow…and cut, sever, and carve all that away, even though he covers the cow again with that same hide and says: ‘This cow is joined to this hide just as it was before,’ that cow would still be disjoined from that hide.”
“Sisters, I have given this simile in order to convey a meaning. This is the meaning: ‘The inner mass of flesh’ is a term for the six internal bases. ‘The outer hide’ is a term for the six external bases. ‘The inner tendons, sinews, and ligaments’ is a term for delight and lust. ‘The sharp butcher’s knife’ is a term for noble wisdom—the noble wisdom that cuts, severs, and carves away the inner defilements, fetters, and bonds. ...”

May we be liberated this very life. Much metta,

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Re: Sotāpanna: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha

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is fruition of stream entry associated with bliss of jhana and their factors (to basic starting level bliss) or perfect equanimity? positive feeling or neutral feeling?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: Sotāpanna: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha

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confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:12 pm is fruition of stream entry associated with bliss of jhana and their factors (to basic starting level bliss) or perfect equanimity? positive feeling or neutral feeling?
B. Bodhi in 'A Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma' wrote: All meditators reach the supramundane paths and fruits through the development
of wisdom (paññā) — insight into the three characteristics of impermanence (anicca),
suffering (dukkha), and non-self (anattā). However, they differ among themselves in the
degree of their development of concentration (samādhi). Those who develop insight
without a basis of jhāna are called practitioners of bare insight (sukkhavipassaka). When
they reach the path and fruit, their path and fruition cittas occur at a level corresponding
to the first jhāna.
Those who develop insight on the basis of jhāna attain a path and fruit that
corresponds to the level of jhāna they had attained before reaching the path. The ancient
teachers advance different views on the question of what factor determines the jhāna
level of the path and fruit. One school of thought holds that it is the basic jhāna
(pādakajjhāna), that is, the jhāna used as a basis for concentrating the mind before
developing the insight that culminates in attainment of the supramundane path. A second
theory holds that the jhāna level of the path is determined by the jhāna used as an object
for investigation by insight, called “the comprehended jhāna” (sammasitajjhāna) or
“investigated jhāna.” Still a third school of thought holds that, when a meditator has
mastered a range of jhānas, he can control the jhāna level of the path by his personal
wish or inclination (ajjhāsaya).43
Nevertheless, no matter what explanation is adopted, for bare insight meditator
and jhāna meditator alike, all path and fruition cittas are considered types of jhāna
consciousness. They are so considered because they occur in the mode of closely
contemplating their object with full absorption, like the mundane jhānas, and because
they possess the jhāna factors with an intensity corresponding to their counterparts in the
mundane jhānas. The supramundane jhānas of the paths and fruits differ from the
mundane jhānas in several important respects. First, whereas the mundane jhānas take as
their object some concept, such as the sign of the kasiṇa, the supramundane jhānas take
as their object Nibbāna, the unconditioned reality. Second, whereas the mundane jhānas
merely suppress the defilements while leaving their underlying seeds intact, the
supramundane jhānas of the path eradicate defilements so that they can never again arise.
Third, while the mundane jhānas lead to rebirth in the fine-material world and thus
sustain existence in the round of rebirths (saṁsāra), the jhānas of the path cut off the
fetters binding one to the cycle and thus issue in liberation from the round of birth and
death. Finally, whereas the role of wisdom in the mundane jhānas is subordinate to that
of concentration, in the supramundane jhānas, wisdom and concentration are well
balanced, with concentration fixing the mind on the unconditioned element and wisdom
fathoming the deep significance of the Four Noble Truths.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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Re: Sotāpanna: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha

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confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:12 pm is fruition of stream entry associated with bliss of jhana and their factors (to basic starting level bliss) or perfect equanimity? positive feeling or neutral feeling?

Yes. It's the first time one overcomes the 5 hindrances, which temporarily suppresses craving and dukkha.
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Re: Sotāpanna: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha

Post by confusedlayman »

coconut wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:55 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:12 pm is fruition of stream entry associated with bliss of jhana and their factors (to basic starting level bliss) or perfect equanimity? positive feeling or neutral feeling?

Yes. It's the first time one overcomes the 5 hindrances, which temporarily suppresses craving and dukkha.
so its bliss or its equanimity?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: Sotāpanna: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha

Post by coconut »

confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:06 pm
coconut wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:55 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:12 pm is fruition of stream entry associated with bliss of jhana and their factors (to basic starting level bliss) or perfect equanimity? positive feeling or neutral feeling?

Yes. It's the first time one overcomes the 5 hindrances, which temporarily suppresses craving and dukkha.
so its bliss or its equanimity?
According to the suttas, I don't know. It's either one needs to reach first jhana minimum or fourth jhana, but at least first jhana.

If it requires executing the entire noble eightfold path, then one can argue fourth jhana. But, technically, it's also considered Samma Samadhi if there ekaggata in first jhana.
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Re: Sotāpanna: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha

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AN 9.12: With Something Left Over

"... Furthermore, there’s a person who has fulfilled ethics, but has limited immersion and wisdom. With the ending of three fetters, they have at most seven rebirths. They will transmigrate at most seven times among gods and humans and then make an end of suffering. This is the ninth person …"

SN 25.3: Viññana Sutta: Consciousness

"There is the case where a monk is wholly accomplished in virtue, moderately accomplished in concentration, and moderately accomplished in wisdom. With reference to the lesser and minor training rules, he falls into offenses and rehabilitates himself. Why is that? Because I have not declared that to be a disqualification in these circumstances. But as for the training rules that are basic to the holy life and proper to the holy life, he is one of permanent virtue, one of steadfast virtue. Having undertaken them, he trains in reference to the training rules. With the wasting away of [the first] three fetters, he is a stream-winner, never again destined for states of woe, certain, headed for self-awakening."

TMHO, what's important is that the "limited immersion and wisdom" is enough to break the three fetters; as long as the three fetters are truly broken, he is a stream-winner.

Metta to all,

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Re: Sotāpanna: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha

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starter wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:34 pm Hi friends,

To obtain the fruit of stream entry and break the fetter of sakkāya-diṭṭhi in addition to the fetters of vicikicchā and sīlabbata-parāmāsa, faith followers and Dhamma followers must study and truly understand the five aggregates (not just nama-rupa, which does not include vinnana), contemplate them, and see them as they actually are with right wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’ The difference between a stream enterer and the other three types of noble disciples (once returner, non-returner, and arahants) is that stream enterers have just arrived at the true understanding of the five aggregates but have not yet removed the clinging to them, while once returners and non-returners have removed such clinging to different degrees, and arahants have completely severed such clinging.

Only stream winners and above should teach others, but many teachers are or were deluded to believe that they were stream enterers or above when they haven't truly understood the five aggregates.

MN 35:

“But in what way is a disciple of the Master Gotama one who carries out his instruction, who responds to his advice, who has crossed beyond doubt, become free from perplexity, gained intrepidity, and become independent of others in the Teacher’s Dispensation?” [This is the definition of a stream enterer.]

“Here, Aggivessana, any kind of material form whatever, whether past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near—a disciple of mine sees all material form as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’ Any kind of feeling whatever…Any kind of perception whatever…Any kind of volitional formations whatever…Any kind of consciousness whatever, whether past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near—a disciple of mine sees all consciousness as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’ It is in this way that a disciple of mine is one who carries out my instruction, who responds to my advice, who has crossed beyond doubt, become free from perplexity, gained intrepidity, and become independent of others in the Teacher’s Dispensation.”

“Master Gotama, in what way is a bhikkhu an arahant with taints destroyed, one who has lived the holy life, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, reached his own goal, destroyed the fetters of being, and is completely liberated through final knowledge?”

“Here, Aggivessana, any kind of material form whatever, whether past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near—a bhikkhu has seen all material form as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self,’ and through not clinging he is liberated. Any kind of feeling whatever…Any kind of perception whatever…Any kind of volitional formations whatever …Any kind of consciousness whatever, whether past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near—a bhikkhu has seen all consciousness as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self,’ and through not clinging he is liberated. It is in this way that a bhikkhu is an arahant with taints destroyed, one who has lived the holy life, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, reached his own goal, destroyed the fetters of being, and is completely liberated through final knowledge.

“When a bhikkhu’s mind is thus liberated, he possesses three unsurpassable qualities: unsurpassable vision, unsurpassable practice, and unsurpassable deliverance.378 When a bhikkhu is thus liberated, he still honours, respects, reveres, and venerates the Tathāgata thus: ‘The Blessed One is enlightened and he teaches the Dhamma for the sake of enlightenment. The Blessed One is tamed and he teaches the Dhamma for taming oneself. The Blessed One is at peace and he teaches the Dhamma for the sake of peace. The Blessed One has crossed over and he teaches the Dhamma for crossing over. The Blessed One has attained Nibbāna and he teaches the Dhamma for attaining Nibbāna.’”

Studying and contemplating the six sense fields as taught in MN 146 also helps.

MN 146:
...
"When they were seated, the venerable Nandaka told the bhikkhunīs:
... “Sisters, what do you think? Is the eye permanent or impermanent?” —“Impermanent, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?”—“Suffering, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?”—“No, venerable sir.”
“Sisters, what do you think? Is the ear....the nose...the tongue...the body...the mind [the mind is only a sense faculty] permanent or impermanent?”—“Impermanent, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?”—“Suffering, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?”—“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because, venerable sir, we have already seen this well as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘These six internal bases are impermanent.’”

“Good, good, sisters! So it is with a noble disciple who sees this as it actually is with proper wisdom.
“Sisters, what do you think? Are forms…sounds…odours… flavours…tangibles…mind-objects permanent or impermanent?” —“Impermanent, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?”—“Suffering, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?”—“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because, venerable sir, we have already seen this well as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘These six external bases are impermanent.’”
“Good, good, sisters! So it is with a noble disciple who sees this as it actually is with proper wisdom.
“Sisters, what do you think? Is eye-consciousness… ear-consciousness…nose-consciousness…tongue-consciousness… body-consciousness…mind-consciousness permanent or impermanent?” —“Impermanent, venerable sir.”—“Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?”—“Suffering, venerable sir.”— “Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?”—“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because, venerable sir, we have already seen this well as it actually is with proper wisdom thus: ‘These six classes of consciousness are impermanent.’”
“Good, good, sisters! So it is with a noble disciple who sees this as it actually is with proper wisdom.
“Sisters, suppose an oil-lamp is burning: its oil is impermanent and subject to change, its wick is impermanent and subject to change, its flame is impermanent and subject to change, and its radiance is impermanent and subject to change. Now would anyone be speaking rightly who spoke thus: ‘While this oil-lamp is burning, its oil, wick, and flame are impermanent and subject to change, but its radiance is permanent, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change’?”
“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because, venerable sir, while that oil-lamp is burning, its oil, wick, and flame are impermanent and subject to change, so its radiance must be impermanent and subject to change.”
“So too, sisters, would anyone be speaking rightly who spoke thus: ‘These six internal bases are impermanent and subject to change, but the pleasant, painful, or neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling that one experiences in dependence upon the six internal bases is permanent, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change’?”
“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because each feeling arises in dependence upon its corresponding condition, and with the cessation of its corresponding condition, the feeling ceases.”
“Good, good, sisters! So it is with a noble disciple who sees this as it actually is with proper wisdom.
“Sisters, suppose a great tree is standing possessed of heartwood: its root is impermanent and subject to change, its trunk is impermanent and subject to change, its branches and foliage are impermanent and subject to change, and its shadow is impermanent and subject to change. Now would anyone be speaking rightly who spoke thus: ‘The root, trunk, branches, and foliage of this great tree standing possessed of heartwood are impermanent and subject to change, but its shadow is permanent, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change’?”
“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because, venerable sir, the root, trunk, branches, and foliage of this great tree standing possessed of heartwood are impermanent and subject to change, so its shadow must be impermanent and subject to change.”
“So too, sisters, would anyone be speaking rightly who spoke thus: ‘These six external bases are impermanent and subject to change, but the pleasant, painful, or neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling that one experiences in dependence upon the six external bases is permanent, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change’?”
“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because each feeling arises in dependence upon its corresponding condition, and with the cessation of its corresponding condition, the feeling ceases.”

“Good, good, sisters! So it is with a noble disciple who sees this as it actually is with proper wisdom.
“Sisters, suppose a skilled butcher or his apprentice were to kill a cow and carve it up with a sharp butcher’s knife. Without damaging the inner mass of flesh (six internal bases)and without damaging the outer hide (six external bases), he would cut, sever, and carve away the inner tendons, sinews, and ligaments (delight and lust / inner defilements, fetters, and bonds) with the sharp butcher’s knife (noble wisdom). Then having cut, severed, and carved all this away, he would remove the outer hide and cover the cow again with that same hide. Would he be speaking rightly if he were to say: ‘This cow is joined to this hide just as it was before’?”
“No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because if that skilled butcher or his apprentice were to kill a cow…and cut, sever, and carve all that away, even though he covers the cow again with that same hide and says: ‘This cow is joined to this hide just as it was before,’ that cow would still be disjoined from that hide.”
“Sisters, I have given this simile in order to convey a meaning. This is the meaning: ‘The inner mass of flesh’ is a term for the six internal bases. ‘The outer hide’ is a term for the six external bases. ‘The inner tendons, sinews, and ligaments’ is a term for delight and lust. ‘The sharp butcher’s knife’ is a term for noble wisdom—the noble wisdom that cuts, severs, and carves away the inner defilements, fetters, and bonds. ...”

May we be liberated this very life. Much metta,

Starter
:goodpost:
Totally agree with this. A proper understanding on 5 aggregates and their characteristics is important to severe Sakkaya Ditthi.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Re: Sotāpanna: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha

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I think non thinking or non fabrication is direct seeing of nibbana .. can someone correct me ?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: Sotāpanna: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha

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confusedlayman wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:48 am can someone correct me ?
thinking is irrelevant
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Re: Sotāpanna: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha

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cappuccino wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:52 am
confusedlayman wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:48 am can someone correct me ?
thinking is irrelevant
what about non thinking?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: Sotāpanna: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha

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confusedlayman wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:23 am what about non thinking?
irrelevant
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