I own shares of stocks and funds

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
bpallister
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I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by bpallister »

is that breaking a precept?
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DNS
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by DNS »

bpallister wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:26 am is that breaking a precept?
No, but I would avoid buying shares in those companies that are considered wrong livelihood. For example, avoiding shares in companies that produce weapons, alcohol (beer companies, etc), cattle futures, etc.
bpallister
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by bpallister »

DNS wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:33 am
bpallister wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:26 am is that breaking a precept?
No, but I would avoid buying shares in those companies that are considered wrong livelihood. For example, avoiding shares in companies that produce weapons, alcohol (beer companies, etc), cattle futures, etc.
Yea, i try not to buy any of that stuff.
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DooDoot
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by DooDoot »

bpallister wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:12 am Yea, i try not to buy any of that stuff.
I own 1 share in a company called GW1. Its worth 30 cents or 3,090 Indonesian Rupiah. :D
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SarathW
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by SarathW »

DNS wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:33 am
bpallister wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:26 am is that breaking a precept?
No, but I would avoid buying shares in those companies that are considered wrong livelihood. For example, avoiding shares in companies that produce weapons, alcohol (beer companies, etc), cattle futures, etc.
This is a difficult goal to achieve when you are not investing directly.
When you invest in Super Funds, Managed Funds and Exchange Traded funds, you do not have control of where the money is invested.
You can find these ethical funds but they defeat the objective of investment.
I worked for a company run by Muslims and they do not invest money in tobacco, alcohol, and gambling-related busineses.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
DiamondNgXZ
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:13 am
I worked for a company run by Muslims and they do not invest money in tobacco, alcohol, and gambling-related busineses.
Yes, indeed, just only recently I realised how cool is Islamic banking and investments. Too little contact with Islam even when living in Malaysia, partly cause the made us study history with heavy focus on Islam in secondary school. Haha, just finished reading up a lot on Islam recently.
bpallister
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by bpallister »

I need some of that gw1 🙂🙏
dharmacorps
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by dharmacorps »

There's nothing wrong with owning funds of stocks or bonds (particularly index funds which invest in a general total market rather than specific industries). There may be problems with owning individual stocks which do business in a certain area (poisons, killing, intoxicants, meat, etc).
Mr. Seek
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by Mr. Seek »

IMHO, I don't think sustaining this society as it s, in any way, shape, or form, is wholesome. Problem is though, you're going to sustain it anyway, pretty much regardless of what you do. Nasty situation.
un8-
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by un8- »

DNS wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:33 am
bpallister wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:26 am is that breaking a precept?
No, but I would avoid buying shares in those companies that are considered wrong livelihood. For example, avoiding shares in companies that produce weapons, alcohol (beer companies, etc), cattle futures, etc.
What about an actively managed fund where they constantly buy and sell different shares, you generally don't have an idea what they're holding. One month it may be a sausage company in the portfolio, another month a movie company.
There is only one battle that could be won, and that is the battle against the 3 poisons. Any other battle is a guaranteed loss because you're going to die either way.
dharmacorps
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by dharmacorps »

un8- wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:07 pm What about an actively managed fund where they constantly buy and sell different shares, you generally don't have an idea what they're holding. One month it may be a sausage company in the portfolio, another month a movie company.
It gets complicated with active management, because basically you are letting someone else invest your money for you usually with the only motivation being make as much money as possible. In this way, you don't have any control over what you invest in, and no say in what is done. I'm not sure its against a precept really, but if you ended up owning a large interest in a company which does something unethical, it would probably be a situation you don't want to be in as a Buddhist. Plus, actively managed funds typically underperform a total market index.
bpallister
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by bpallister »

i try to buy ethical etfs, like climate ones. i've also been investing in water etf's lately. but i do have some index etfs and individual stocks as well. also gold and silver etf's, which probably aren't all that ethical, now that i think about it. they are also not doing well, so maybe i should get rid of them. i also have a bitcoin etf, and i know bitcoin uses a ton of electricity, so i don't feel great about that.
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DooDoot
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by DooDoot »

dharmacorps wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:32 pm There's nothing wrong with owning funds of stocks or bonds (particularly index funds which invest in a general total market rather than specific industries). There may be problems with owning individual stocks which do business in a certain area (poisons, killing, intoxicants, meat, etc).
In the UK, i recently read somewhere the weapons industry now makes more revenue than the automotive industry. In Australia, there are many Israeli technology enterprises listed on the ASX (easy place to raise capital). Yet when you look into these companies, they often are developing tech also used in the arms industries; including for drones. Now tech is being used by the new surveillance state; such as the censoring of open scientific discourse. Obviously, in the Buddha's time, there was not a weapons industries like today that is so connected to other industries.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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DNS
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by DNS »

un8- wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:07 pm
DNS wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:33 am
bpallister wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:26 am is that breaking a precept?
No, but I would avoid buying shares in those companies that are considered wrong livelihood. For example, avoiding shares in companies that produce weapons, alcohol (beer companies, etc), cattle futures, etc.
What about an actively managed fund where they constantly buy and sell different shares, you generally don't have an idea what they're holding. One month it may be a sausage company in the portfolio, another month a movie company.
That sounds like a gray area. The managed fund might be investing in some of those bad companies that you didn't intend to invest in, but it wasn't directly your choice. To be sure you could just invest in individual companies (Microsoft, Apple, etc).
bpallister
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Re: I own shares of stocks and funds

Post by bpallister »

no matter how good our intentions are, somewhere along the food chain there is blood on our hands.
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