Abortion

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Abortion

Post by Ceisiwr »

Inedible
For now the best solution is to stop spreading Down Syndrome.
The vast majority of cases of Down's are not inherited. Unless we are talking about Robertsonian Translocation, which make up a small percentage of Down Syndrome cases, the condition is not "spread".
"Because of attachment to doctrines one approaches and refutes,
For those unattached, how can they dispute?
Not because self or no-self are said to be true,
He has only shaken off all harmful views."


Duṭṭhaṭṭhaka Sutta
binocular
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Re: Abortion

Post by binocular »

Inedible wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:16 pmAbortion is just a concept. It isn't even real until something happens to make it relevant to you or someone you know.
One needn't be personally, emotionally involved in order to strongly hold a stance about something.

For example, you probably never have been nor will be involved directly in capital punishment, yet, as a Buddhist, you're supposed to have a strong stance about it.
I've never taken heroin nor do I ever intend to, nor has any of the people I know closely, yet I have a strong stance about it.

It's called "having character".
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
binocular
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Re: Abortion

Post by binocular »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:40 amBut the state can stop her, just like how it can try to stop theft. The woman cannot use her bodily autonomy to violate the rights of another human being.
The problem is that society advocates for two potentially mutually exclusive actions: 1. you must have sex, and 2. you must not become pregnant if you don't want to.

As long as this is so, there will be a need for abortions.
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Inedible
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Re: Abortion

Post by Inedible »

binocular wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:09 pm It's called "having character".
Yes, you could spend eternity crafting a more pleasing character. Samsara is the place to be if you want to chase dreams. Or cut through to the root of the matter. Everything must go, so don't waste time making it pretty before you flush it down the toilet.
binocular
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Re: Abortion

Post by binocular »

Inedible wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:33 pm
binocular wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:09 pm It's called "having character".
Yes, you could spend eternity crafting a more pleasing character. Samsara is the place to be if you want to chase dreams. Or cut through to the root of the matter. Everything must go, so don't waste time making it pretty before you flush it down the toilet.
Then it's highly ironic that you post here.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Abortion

Post by Sam Vara »

binocular wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:09 pm
For example, you probably never have been nor will be involved directly in capital punishment, yet, as a Buddhist, you're supposed to have a strong stance about it.
Where is the list of the things that Buddhists are "supposed" to have a strong stance about? It's very different from keeping a precept, isn't it...
binocular
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Re: Abortion

Post by binocular »

Sam Vara wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:33 pmWhere is the list of the things that Buddhists are "supposed" to have a strong stance about? It's very different from keeping a precept, isn't it...
Keeping precepts and having strong stances about the themes of the precepts go hand in hand. Except for those people who are clinging to rites and rituals.
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Inedible
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Re: Abortion

Post by Inedible »

binocular wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:23 pm Then it's highly ironic that you post here.
Yes, that is just like me.

If it comes up in conversation I tend to admit to being a hypocrite. Usually it is because what I did was better than what I said.

One of your examples was capital punishment. I think murder is still murder even when it is government authorized. No one really cares what I think and it wouldn't matter if I approved of capital punishment, either. I'm not in a position to act on an opinion about it.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Abortion

Post by Sam Vara »

binocular wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:15 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:33 pmWhere is the list of the things that Buddhists are "supposed" to have a strong stance about? It's very different from keeping a precept, isn't it...
Keeping precepts and having strong stances about the themes of the precepts go hand in hand. Except for those people who are clinging to rites and rituals.
Evidence? I don't have strong stances about the "themes of the precepts" (whatever they are) nor do many people I know, nor am I expected to have, by monks or laity alike. You shouldn't extrapolate from your experiences on internet forums. They aren't the real world.
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Re: Abortion

Post by Inedible »

binocular wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:15 pm Keeping precepts and having strong stances about the themes of the precepts go hand in hand.
Precepts are a tool for increasing mindfulness. They also protect again having guilt in the mind when it is time to cultivate jhana. They don't require having strong feelings or opinions.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Abortion

Post by Mahabrahma »

Downs Syndrome people are beautiful, and people with Downs Syndrome can be healed with advanced technology or Transcendental powers of the Buddha and Spiritual Miracles of growth. There's a reason people don't want other human beings murdered. Please go find out the value of human life, and if you already know the value of human life, please connect to it, because life's value is priceless.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Abortion

Post by Sam Vara »

Inedible wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:38 pm
binocular wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:15 pm Keeping precepts and having strong stances about the themes of the precepts go hand in hand.
Precepts are a tool for increasing mindfulness. They also protect again having guilt in the mind when it is time to cultivate jhana. They don't require having strong feelings or opinions.
:goodpost: Exactly so. Any relationship between the two in the real world is completely factitious.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Abortion

Post by Sam Vara »

Mahabrahma wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:19 pm Downs Syndrome people are beautiful, and people with Downs Syndrome can be healed with advanced technology or Transcendental powers of the Buddha and Spiritual Miracles of growth.
What would it mean for a person with Down's Syndrome to be "healed"? It is I believe a chromosomal disorder, so rectifying that in a living adult human would be a very big deal indeed. Once you have defined this "healing", do you have any evidence that it has taken place?
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Abortion

Post by Mahabrahma »

Sam Vara wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:44 pm
Mahabrahma wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:19 pm Downs Syndrome people are beautiful, and people with Downs Syndrome can be healed with advanced technology or Transcendental powers of the Buddha and Spiritual Miracles of growth.
What would it mean for a person with Down's Syndrome to be "healed"? It is I believe a chromosomal disorder, so rectifying that in a living adult human would be a very big deal indeed. Once you have defined this "healing", do you have any evidence that it has taken place?
The medical industry hides this kind of thing, but I have even met people who have been fully healed of autism. People also go to Faith Healing Ceremonies in the Christian Church to be healed by the Holy Spirit. No doubt you have heard of Jesus Healing people with the Holy Spirit. Healing miracles are real and the modern medical industry tries to hide them because the Spirit heals for free.
Caodemarte
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Re: Abortion

Post by Caodemarte »

Buddhist countries practice capital punishment and allow abortion. I oppose capital punishment on moral grounds, but recognize that Buddhists have historically interpreted the precepts differently. It may be worth noting that one of the reasons abortion is legally practiced in poor Buddhist countries is a recognition that infanticide is the alternative and that illegal abortions will continue.
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