Given the Buddhist view of embryonic life, it is not surprising that causing an abortion is seen as a serious act:
When a monk is ordained he should not intentionally deprive a living being of
life, even if it is only an ant. Whatever monk deprives a human being of life,
even (antamaso) down to destroying an embryo (gabbha-patanam·upadaya), he
becomes not a (true) renouncer, not a son of the Sakiyans.
The penalty for a monk intentionally causing an abortion is permanent expulsion from the Sangha:
Whatever monk should intentionally deprive a human being of life . . . he is also
one who is defeated [in the monastic life], he is not in communion . . . Human
being means: from the mind’s first arising, from (the time of) consciousness
becoming first manifest in a mother’s womb until the time of death, here meanwhile
he is called a human being.
Abortion
- Nicholas Weeks
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Abortion
I did not find a thread on this important topic. So here is a little from Harvey's Introduction to Buddhist Ethics (313) to start us off. The definition of a human being is clear.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
Re: Abortion
Well, it seems pretty clear that Theravada Buddhism does not condone abortion as a form of birth control.
Things get trickier, though, when situations arise that involve the health or life of the mother. Because in such cases, the decision to save the fetus may amount to killing the mother.
Things get trickier, though, when situations arise that involve the health or life of the mother. Because in such cases, the decision to save the fetus may amount to killing the mother.
Last edited by Lazy_eye on Sat May 11, 2013 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Abortion
Let us not get 'tricky' then and please avoid public policy debates. I just would like to focus on what the Dhamma taught about abortion.Lazy_eye wrote:Well, it seems pretty clear that Buddhism does not condone abortion as a form of birth control.
Things get trickier, though, when situations arise that involve the health or life of the mother. Because in that case, the decision to save the fetus may amount to killing the mother.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
Re: Abortion
I think it is pretty clear. Abortion (even as contraception) is willfully putting an end to the life of an unborn, which, undeveloped though it might be, would continue to grow and develop until it is ready to be born.
I think this is different from "pro-life" as that often comes with a whole load of political and philosophical baggage that may be alien to the Dhamma.
I think this is different from "pro-life" as that often comes with a whole load of political and philosophical baggage that may be alien to the Dhamma.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26
Iti 26
Re: Abortion
The modern ethical question centers on a medical possibility which was utterly beyond the pale ca. 5th Century BCE. The Buddha never discussed it.Will wrote:I just would like to focus on what the Dhamma taught about abortion.
Two gametes form a diploid zygote (or 'morula'), which later becomes a blastocyst, consisting of ~85 cells. Since hundreds of thousands of skin cells fall off a grown human body every few hours, I'm hoping people with strong opinions have a consistent definition of "life" which they are willing to share alongside their views on embryos.
Bhante Sujato discussed some of these issues once. The texts cited seem to show 'abortion' (if it can be translated thusly) being used as a sign of an extreme: no sex even to the depth of a sesame seed, no stealing even as much as a blade of grass, no killing even of a little embryo. So it's not very clear that we can equate a born child to a blastocyst, though for a monastic there is a stricture in place in any event because that's what monastics watch out for.
In terms of lay ethics, consistency would demand equating bank robbery with taking a pencil from a jar of them at the post office. They do both run afoul of the precept, but there nevertheless seems to be a difference...
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Abortion
A less conservative approach to the Dhamma, also touches on abortion:
- Nicholas Weeks
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- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
- Location: USA West Coast
Re: Abortion
Sure is difficult to focus on what Buddha taught - evidently.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
Re: Abortion
Well, he didn't formulate a teaching to address a grey area which has only arisen in the context of modern medicine, so the difficulty is certainly present when talking about these matters. We can attempt inference, of course, but "what the Buddha taught" is only the starting point in such cases, not the conclusion.Will wrote:Sure is difficult to focus on what Buddha taught - evidently.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: Abortion
If we're talking about personal opinions, mine is that abortion in the first few weeks after conception doesn't present a moral problem, for the reasons Daverupa mentioned. And I also think it is justifiable when the mother's health is at stake.
However, my view is informed by secular ethics rather than Theravada moral norms, and I believe Will was asking an informational question about what (Theravada) Buddhism teaches. It seems difficult, to me, to find a basis in the suttas for justifying abortion at any stage of pregnancy, except when the mother's life is in danger. Again, let me stress that I'm simply trying to answer Will's question, not promulgate my own views.
The issue seems entangled fairly deeply with everyone's favorite dhamma topic, rebirth. If we go by the orthodox Theravada teachings, which not only assert that rebirth takes place but provide a detailed outline of how it takes place, then abortion clearly violates the first precept. Worth remembering here, perhaps, that even intentional killing of a bumblebee is a breach of the precept, at least from an orthodox point of view.
Unfortunately, if one is agnostic about rebirth, there is still a potential moral problem. Being agnostic means you accept the possibility that rebirth might be true, in which case abortion isn't ahimsa.
If one rejects rebirth, then we 're left with the need to define a starting point for "life" in an ethically meaningful sense. Maybe the viability threshold.
However, my view is informed by secular ethics rather than Theravada moral norms, and I believe Will was asking an informational question about what (Theravada) Buddhism teaches. It seems difficult, to me, to find a basis in the suttas for justifying abortion at any stage of pregnancy, except when the mother's life is in danger. Again, let me stress that I'm simply trying to answer Will's question, not promulgate my own views.
The issue seems entangled fairly deeply with everyone's favorite dhamma topic, rebirth. If we go by the orthodox Theravada teachings, which not only assert that rebirth takes place but provide a detailed outline of how it takes place, then abortion clearly violates the first precept. Worth remembering here, perhaps, that even intentional killing of a bumblebee is a breach of the precept, at least from an orthodox point of view.
Unfortunately, if one is agnostic about rebirth, there is still a potential moral problem. Being agnostic means you accept the possibility that rebirth might be true, in which case abortion isn't ahimsa.
If one rejects rebirth, then we 're left with the need to define a starting point for "life" in an ethically meaningful sense. Maybe the viability threshold.
Last edited by Lazy_eye on Sat May 11, 2013 6:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Nicholas Weeks
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- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
- Location: USA West Coast
Re: Abortion
Perhaps if the mods would move this post to Classical Theravada the subject of abortion could be discussed exclusively from the classic Dhamma texts.Will wrote:I did not find a thread on this important topic. So here is a little from Harvey's Introduction to Buddhist Ethics (313) to start us off. The definition of a human being is clear.
Given the Buddhist view of embryonic life, it is not surprising that causing an abortion is seen as a serious act:
When a monk is ordained he should not intentionally deprive a living being of
life, even if it is only an ant. Whatever monk deprives a human being of life,
even (antamaso) down to destroying an embryo (gabbha-patanam·upadaya), he
becomes not a (true) renouncer, not a son of the Sakiyans.
The penalty for a monk intentionally causing an abortion is permanent expulsion from the Sangha:
Whatever monk should intentionally deprive a human being of life . . . he is also
one who is defeated [in the monastic life], he is not in communion . . . Human
being means: from the mind’s first arising, from (the time of) consciousness
becoming first manifest in a mother’s womb until the time of death, here meanwhile
he is called a human being.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
Re: Abortion
hello all,
This previous thread may be of interest:
Theravada's Teaching on bioethics:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1392
With metta
Chris
This previous thread may be of interest:
Theravada's Teaching on bioethics:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1392
With metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
Re: Abortion
Very useful.cooran wrote:hello all,
This previous thread may be of interest:
Theravada's Teaching on bioethics:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1392
With metta
Chris
Ven. Dhammanando mentions that the parajika discussion in the Vinaya concludes that the first citta in the womb is the start of life for purposes of calculating related breaches of the precept.
However, I anticipate controversy over associating citta with a given stage of the neurological development of the embryo. Discussion seems destined to become mired in this speculative detail.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: Abortion
I have never read any specific teaching given by Buddha, for laypeople, about abortion. I have only read Buddha give the general teaching to train to refrain from killing living beings but the laypeople in Buddha's time obviously did not practise this 100% because they would have killed to eat. I have only read Vinaya about abortion but Vinaya is for monks & is not for laypeople. I have read Vinaya forbids a monk or nun recommending & participating in an abortion but I have not read Vinaya instruct that monks & nuns must embark on moral crusades against abortion. Buddha taught kamma is intention &, based on this general principle, it is the intention motivating an abortion that defines whether the act in a given circumstance is unwholesome & harmful. This is the general view of modern teachers of Dhamma.Will wrote:Let us not get 'tricky' then and please avoid public policy debates. I just would like to focus on what the Dhamma taught about abortion.
The Dalai Lama has said that abortion is "negative," but there are exceptions. He said, "I think abortion should be approved or disapproved according to each circumstance."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_abortion
Regarding abortion, people argue until black and red in the face about whether or not it should be done, without investigating to find out in which cases it should and in which cases it should not. Once we follow the principles of the Buddhist way of reasoning, each situation itself will tell us what is proper and what is not. Please stop insisting on one-sided positions.
Kalama Sutta, Help Us!
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Re: Abortion
Yes And isn't that just a good thing? It forces us to think and contemplate for ourselves, which is in my opinion precisely the pointWill wrote:Sure is difficult to focus on what Buddha taught - evidently.
Re: Abortion
There was a sad case of a woman being refused an abortion in Ireland recently.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ap ... r-abortion
.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ap ... r-abortion
.