Abortion

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
Inedible
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Re: Abortion

Post by Inedible »

Mahabrahma wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:19 pm Downs Syndrome people are beautiful,
This is something I have heard before. Generally I know better than to say I find them creepy looking. Obviously I blame the parents. So do you really enjoy looking at deformities or are you just that politically correct?
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Abortion

Post by Ceisiwr »

Inedible
Obviously I blame the parents.
Why do you blame the parents?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Abortion

Post by Inedible »

The children aren't the ones who chose to have sex without protection.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Abortion

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Mahabrahma wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:49 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:44 pm
Mahabrahma wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:19 pm Downs Syndrome people are beautiful, and people with Downs Syndrome can be healed with advanced technology or Transcendental powers of the Buddha and Spiritual Miracles of growth.
What would it mean for a person with Down's Syndrome to be "healed"? It is I believe a chromosomal disorder, so rectifying that in a living adult human would be a very big deal indeed. Once you have defined this "healing", do you have any evidence that it has taken place?
The medical industry hides this kind of thing, but I have even met people who have been fully healed of autism. People also go to Faith Healing Ceremonies in the Christian Church to be healed by the Holy Spirit. No doubt you have heard of Jesus Healing people with the Holy Spirit. Healing miracles are real and the modern medical industry tries to hide them because the Spirit heals for free.
The Spirit may heal for free, and the medical industry may well try to hide that. But I don't see how it could. If anyone had a relative whose chromosomes were so altered in adulthood, there is no way it could be hidden.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Abortion

Post by Ceisiwr »

Inedible wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:16 am The children aren't the ones who chose to have sex without protection.
You seem to think that Down's Syndrome is an inherited disease. Apart from Robertsonian Translocations, which make up a tiny number of cases, Down's Syndrome is not an inherited genetic disease. A couple could be totally free of any genetic disease, could want a kid, have sex and then find out that the child has Down's. How is that their fault?

In all honestly it sounds like you don't understand how non-RT Down's occurs. Hint, its a random mutation which isn't inherited.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Abortion

Post by Mahabrahma »

Inedible wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:09 am
Mahabrahma wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:19 pm Downs Syndrome people are beautiful,
This is something I have heard before. Generally I know better than to say I find them creepy looking. Obviously I blame the parents. So do you really enjoy looking at deformities or are you just that politically correct?
I honestly think people with Downs Syndrome are just as beautiful as any one us, having a unique life and story to tell. They are generally very kind people, and like children, do no wrong because of their innocence. They are not deformed, they just look different because of a different genetic code, and it is not inferior to yours, just operating on a different frequency. When it is the very essence of a person that you look at, and realize that no living creature that is born from a womb is born bad or evil as a child, you will learn to connect to your Love for everyone the way that you want to.
Last edited by Mahabrahma on Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Abortion

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Sam Vara wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:02 am
Mahabrahma wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:49 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:44 pm

What would it mean for a person with Down's Syndrome to be "healed"? It is I believe a chromosomal disorder, so rectifying that in a living adult human would be a very big deal indeed. Once you have defined this "healing", do you have any evidence that it has taken place?
The medical industry hides this kind of thing, but I have even met people who have been fully healed of autism. People also go to Faith Healing Ceremonies in the Christian Church to be healed by the Holy Spirit. No doubt you have heard of Jesus Healing people with the Holy Spirit. Healing miracles are real and the modern medical industry tries to hide them because the Spirit heals for free.
The Spirit may heal for free, and the medical industry may well try to hide that. But I don't see how it could. If anyone had a relative whose chromosomes were so altered in adulthood, there is no way it could be hidden.
There are many things in life that don't come out into the open because of how people choose to focus on things. For example, I personally have been resurrected many times in this life, living the type of dangerous life that I have lived. I have been to the other side in so many ways. I have also raised many, many people from the dead with the power of the Holy Sprit, in fact it was the first thing I went to do after getting baptized many years ago. Yet in the public eye, the secular media doesn't look at resurrection as something viable, because it doesn't make money. We live in an evil world. But if you turn on a Christian TV station you may eventually find a pastor like Andrew Wommack talking about how their son was raised from the dead straight out of the morgue in the cold, because of his prayer and devotion. It's so prevalent that all sorts of healing miracles occur in the Christian world that there is not a second thought given by so many Christians about whether they are possible or not.

In the world of Buddhism we find great miracles too: levitation, walking through walls (I have personally seen Buddhists do this), flying, instant moving to other planets by the power of will, and the use of peaceful Chakras made of energy as weapons against demons. Buddhist monks are capable of healing others too, I remember a story in which someone stood in front of a Buddhist monk's robe and their ailment went away. Don't cling to the properties of the physical body, anything in it can be changed. Buddhists have been known to raise the dead too, but it is also because of the ignorance of the secular world that these practices are kept hidden from others, both being done by Buddhists and Christians, so they are not disrupted and so that healed and resurrected people have peaceful lives. I know there are some people in this forum who know exactly what I am talking about, as this type of thing is part of our lives. Even babies who died in the womb or soon after get resurrected to live their entire lives out. This happened to me at birth, since someone was trying to murder me and my mother while I was still in the womb, but I got resurrected by my Guru, and here I am, happy to be alive.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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Re: Abortion

Post by binocular »

Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:07 amYou seem to think that Down's Syndrome is an inherited disease. Apart from Robertsonian Translocations, which make up a tiny number of cases, Down's Syndrome is not an inherited genetic disease. A couple could be totally free of any genetic disease, could want a kid, have sex and then find out that the child has Down's. How is that their fault?
One reasoning goes that Down's Syndrome is the fault of the parents, primarily the mother, because she chose to still have children at an advanced maternal age where the syndrome is much more likely to occur; and secondly, because she did not abort the fetus once discovering that it has or likely has DS.

Iceland, for example, has virtually no cases of DS because the vast majority of them are discovered early on in the pregnancy and aborted.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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Re: Abortion

Post by binocular »

Sam Vara wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:40 pm
Inedible wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:38 pm
binocular wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:15 pmKeeping precepts and having strong stances about the themes of the precepts go hand in hand.
Precepts are a tool for increasing mindfulness. They also protect again having guilt in the mind when it is time to cultivate jhana. They don't require having strong feelings or opinions.
:goodpost: Exactly so. Any relationship between the two in the real world is completely factitious.
Count your blessings that this time around, you're male; and heaven help you if next time around you're born female.
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Re: Abortion

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binocular wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:36 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:07 amYou seem to think that Down's Syndrome is an inherited disease. Apart from Robertsonian Translocations, which make up a tiny number of cases, Down's Syndrome is not an inherited genetic disease. A couple could be totally free of any genetic disease, could want a kid, have sex and then find out that the child has Down's. How is that their fault?
One reasoning goes that Down's Syndrome is the fault of the parents, primarily the mother, because she chose to still have children at an advanced maternal age where the syndrome is much more likely to occur; and secondly, because she did not abort the fetus once discovering that it has or likely has DS.

Iceland, for example, has virtually no cases of DS because the vast majority of them are discovered early on in the pregnancy and aborted.
Indeed. Of course, not all Down's occurs in women in older age and simply killing the foetus because it has Downs, well...
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Sam Vara
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Re: Abortion

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binocular wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:39 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:40 pm
Inedible wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:38 pm
Precepts are a tool for increasing mindfulness. They also protect again having guilt in the mind when it is time to cultivate jhana. They don't require having strong feelings or opinions.
:goodpost: Exactly so. Any relationship between the two in the real world is completely factitious.
Count your blessings that this time around, you're male; and heaven help you if next time around you're born female.
I am agreeing with the point of view that precepts do not require having strong feelings or opinions. What on earth does it have to do with being male or female?
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Re: Abortion

Post by binocular »

If a person wishes to "enjoy life", they have to decide in advance about such difficult issues; otherwise, not having resolved those issues, one will be haunted by them and they will suck all the joy out of one's life.
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Re: Abortion

Post by binocular »

Sam Vara wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:05 pmI am agreeing with the point of view that precepts do not require having strong feelings or opinions. What on earth does it have to do with being male or female?
Because being female one learns a whole new category of how things matter.

But, hey, there is no law against being obtuse or indolent. By all mean,s people should make the best of it while they can!
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Re: Abortion

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binocular wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:11 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:05 pmI am agreeing with the point of view that precepts do not require having strong feelings or opinions. What on earth does it have to do with being male or female?
Because being female one learns a whole new category of how things matter.

But, hey, there is no law against being obtuse or indolent. By all mean,s people should make the best of it while they can!
Please explain "how things matter" such that my claim that precepts do not require having strong feelings or opinions is indicative of my being obtuse or indolent; or merely being wrong in making that claim.
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Re: Abortion

Post by binocular »

Sometimes, I want to pinch you guys in the cheek, to see whether your skin is made of rubber and there's steel and plastic underneath.
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