What do you think about this sutta?SN 17.3: Kumma Sutta - The Turtle wrote:Staying at Savatthi. "Monks, gains, offerings, & fame are a cruel thing, a harsh, bitter obstacle to the attainment of the unexcelled rest from bondage.
"Once, monks, a large family of turtles had lived for a long time in a certain freshwater lake. Then one turtle said to another, 'My dear turtle, don't go to that area.' But the turtle went to that area, and because of that a hunter lanced him with a harpoon. So he went back to the first turtle. The first turtle saw him coming from afar, and on seeing him said to him, 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'
"'I went to that area, dear turtle.'
"'Then I hope you haven't been wounded or hurt.'
"'I haven't been wounded or hurt, but there's this cord that keeps dragging around behind me.'
"'Yes, dear turtle, you're wounded, you're hurt. It was because of that cord that your father & grandfather fell into misfortune & disaster. Now go, dear turtle. You are no longer one of us.'
"The hunter, monks, stands for Mara, the Evil One. The harpoon stands for gains, offerings, & fame. The cord stands for delight & passion. Any monk who relishes & revels in gains, offerings, & fame that have arisen is called a monk lanced by the harpoon, who has fallen into misfortune & disaster. The Evil One can do with him as he will. That's how cruel gains, offerings, & fame are: a harsh, bitter obstacle to the attainment of the unexcelled rest from bondage.
"So you should train yourselves: 'We will put aside any gains, offerings, & fame that have arisen; and we will not let any gains, offerings, & fame that have arisen keep our minds consumed.' That's how you should train yourselves."
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See also: SN 17.5; SN 17.8
'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'
'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'
- Bhikkhu Pesala
- Posts: 4646
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Re: 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'
It's an excellent discourse. Only the Noble Ones are not corrupted by gains, honour, and fame, and even Arahants should shun them since it will only cause them trouble.perkele wrote:What do you think about this sutta?
There are several instances in the suttas of monks leaving their place of residence when they were "discovered," i.e. when supporters found out that they were Noble Ones, or had psychic powers, e.g. Mahaka Thera.
Blog • Pāli Fonts • In This Very Life • Buddhist Chronicles • Software (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
Re: 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'
I can't comment on the monastic aspect, but I like the idea that the damage only gradually becomes apparent to the one who has been damaged. That's both scary and very true to life, and says something about delusion. It reminds me a bit of the tree-deva and the apparently innocuous creeper in this sutta:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Thanks for posting it, perkele.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Thanks for posting it, perkele.
Re: 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'
Thanks Bhante and Sam Vara. These are good thoughts to ponder...
Re: 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'
Another sutta I found that might fit well into here is this one from the Theragatha:
Thag 14.2: Godatta wrote:
- Just as a fine, well-bred bull
yoked to a load,
enduring his load,
crushed
by the heavy burden,
doesn't throw down his yoke;
so, too, those who are filled with discernment
— as the ocean, with water —
don't look down on others.
This is nobility among beings.
Having fallen in time
under the sway of time,
having come under the sway
from becoming & non-,
people fall subject to pain
& they grieve.
Elated by the causes of pleasure,
& cast down by causes of pain,
fools are destroyed by both,
not seeing them for what they are.
While those who, in the midst of
pleasure & pain
have gone past the seamstress of craving,
stand firm
like a boundary pillar,
neither elated nor cast down.
Not to gain or loss
not to status or honor,
not to praise or blame,
not to pleasure or pain:
everywhere
they do not adhere —
like a water bead
on a lotus.
Everywhere
they are happy, the enlightened,
everywhere
un-
defeated.
No matter what
the unrighteous gain
or the righteous loss,
righteous loss is better
than if there were unrighteous gain.
No matter what
the status of the unaware
or the lowliness of those who know,
the lowliness of those who know
is better,
not the status of those
unaware.
No matter what
the praise from fools
or the censure from those who know,
the censure from those who know
is better
than if there were praise
from fools.
And as for the pleasure
from sensuality
and the pain from seclusion,
the pain from seclusion
is better
than if there were pleasure
from sensuality.
And as for living through unrighteousness
and dying for righteousness,
dying for righteousness
is better,
than if one were to live
through unrighteousness.
Those who've abandoned
sensuality & anger,
whose minds are calmed
from becoming & non-,
go through the world
unattached.
For them there is nothing
dear or undear.
Developing
the factors for Awakening,
faculties,
& strengths,
attaining the foremost peace,
without fermentation, they
are entirely
Unbound.
Re: 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'
The six sense spheres contact is a bait. Don't bite it.
http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/96/talk/1962/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/96/talk/1962/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
- BlackMagic
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:21 am
Re: 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'
It's a nice children's story as an introduction to the Bhavacakra and uniformity while at school... not to be led off course by peoples pants, shirts, phones, phone dongle etc. as that is the spear. Hunter is neither good or bad unless one cannot see the hunter in oneself; bringing the wrong food home to family.perkele wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:37 pmWhat do you think about this sutta?SN 17.3: Kumma Sutta - The Turtle wrote:Staying at Savatthi. "Monks, gains, offerings, & fame are a cruel thing, a harsh, bitter obstacle to the attainment of the unexcelled rest from bondage.
"Once, monks, a large family of turtles had lived for a long time in a certain freshwater lake. Then one turtle said to another, 'My dear turtle, don't go to that area.' But the turtle went to that area, and because of that a hunter lanced him with a harpoon. So he went back to the first turtle. The first turtle saw him coming from afar, and on seeing him said to him, 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'
"'I went to that area, dear turtle.'
"'Then I hope you haven't been wounded or hurt.'
"'I haven't been wounded or hurt, but there's this cord that keeps dragging around behind me.'
"'Yes, dear turtle, you're wounded, you're hurt. It was because of that cord that your father & grandfather fell into misfortune & disaster. Now go, dear turtle. You are no longer one of us.'
"The hunter, monks, stands for Mara, the Evil One. The harpoon stands for gains, offerings, & fame. The cord stands for delight & passion. Any monk who relishes & revels in gains, offerings, & fame that have arisen is called a monk lanced by the harpoon, who has fallen into misfortune & disaster. The Evil One can do with him as he will. That's how cruel gains, offerings, & fame are: a harsh, bitter obstacle to the attainment of the unexcelled rest from bondage.
"So you should train yourselves: 'We will put aside any gains, offerings, & fame that have arisen; and we will not let any gains, offerings, & fame that have arisen keep our minds consumed.' That's how you should train yourselves."
________________________________________________________________________________
See also: SN 17.5; SN 17.8
Basically a one robe, one bowl teaching.
Why does science class need a hello kitty dongle?
The child's talking just gets lower and lower in volume retreating back into themself... to science class to search for the correct food.
For sharing; world heritage has quite a few of these as "cannon" based on location; Aesop is a nice collection for ethics.
What has happened; Is that which has yet to come. What will be ...Already is.