'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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perkele
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'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'

Post by perkele »

SN 17.3: Kumma Sutta - The Turtle wrote:Staying at Savatthi. "Monks, gains, offerings, & fame are a cruel thing, a harsh, bitter obstacle to the attainment of the unexcelled rest from bondage.

"Once, monks, a large family of turtles had lived for a long time in a certain freshwater lake. Then one turtle said to another, 'My dear turtle, don't go to that area.' But the turtle went to that area, and because of that a hunter lanced him with a harpoon. So he went back to the first turtle. The first turtle saw him coming from afar, and on seeing him said to him, 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'

"'I went to that area, dear turtle.'

"'Then I hope you haven't been wounded or hurt.'

"'I haven't been wounded or hurt, but there's this cord that keeps dragging around behind me.'

"'Yes, dear turtle, you're wounded, you're hurt. It was because of that cord that your father & grandfather fell into misfortune & disaster. Now go, dear turtle. You are no longer one of us.'

"The hunter, monks, stands for Mara, the Evil One. The harpoon stands for gains, offerings, & fame. The cord stands for delight & passion. Any monk who relishes & revels in gains, offerings, & fame that have arisen is called a monk lanced by the harpoon, who has fallen into misfortune & disaster. The Evil One can do with him as he will. That's how cruel gains, offerings, & fame are: a harsh, bitter obstacle to the attainment of the unexcelled rest from bondage.

"So you should train yourselves: 'We will put aside any gains, offerings, & fame that have arisen; and we will not let any gains, offerings, & fame that have arisen keep our minds consumed.' That's how you should train yourselves."



________________________________________________________________________________

See also: SN 17.5; SN 17.8
What do you think about this sutta?

:anjali:
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

perkele wrote:What do you think about this sutta?
It's an excellent discourse. Only the Noble Ones are not corrupted by gains, honour, and fame, and even Arahants should shun them since it will only cause them trouble.

There are several instances in the suttas of monks leaving their place of residence when they were "discovered," i.e. when supporters found out that they were Noble Ones, or had psychic powers, e.g. Mahaka Thera.
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Sam Vara
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Re: 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'

Post by Sam Vara »

I can't comment on the monastic aspect, but I like the idea that the damage only gradually becomes apparent to the one who has been damaged. That's both scary and very true to life, and says something about delusion. It reminds me a bit of the tree-deva and the apparently innocuous creeper in this sutta:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Thanks for posting it, perkele.
perkele
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Re: 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'

Post by perkele »

Thanks Bhante and Sam Vara. These are good thoughts to ponder...
perkele
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Re: 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'

Post by perkele »

Another sutta I found that might fit well into here is this one from the Theragatha:
Thag 14.2: Godatta wrote:
  • Just as a fine, well-bred bull
    yoked to a load,
    enduring his load,
    crushed
    by the heavy burden,
    doesn't throw down his yoke;
    so, too, those who are filled with discernment
    — as the ocean, with water —
    don't look down on others.
    This is nobility among beings.

    Having fallen in time
    under the sway of time,
    having come under the sway
    from becoming & non-,
    people fall subject to pain
    & they grieve.

    Elated by the causes of pleasure,
    & cast down by causes of pain,
    fools are destroyed by both,
    not seeing them for what they are.
    While those who, in the midst of
    pleasure & pain
    have gone past the seamstress of craving,
    stand firm
    like a boundary pillar,
    neither elated nor cast down.

    Not to gain or loss
    not to status or honor,
    not to praise or blame,
    not to pleasure or pain:
    everywhere
    they do not adhere —
    like a water bead
    on a lotus.
    Everywhere
    they are happy, the enlightened,
    everywhere
    un-
    defeated.

    No matter what
    the unrighteous gain
    or the righteous loss,
    righteous loss is better
    than if there were unrighteous gain.
    No matter what
    the status of the unaware
    or the lowliness of those who know,
    the lowliness of those who know
    is better,
    not the status of those
    unaware.
    No matter what
    the praise from fools
    or the censure from those who know,
    the censure from those who know
    is better
    than if there were praise
    from fools.
    And as for the pleasure
    from sensuality
    and the pain from seclusion,
    the pain from seclusion
    is better
    than if there were pleasure
    from sensuality.
    And as for living through unrighteousness
    and dying for righteousness,
    dying for righteousness
    is better,
    than if one were to live
    through unrighteousness.

    Those who've abandoned
    sensuality & anger,
    whose minds are calmed
    from becoming & non-,
    go through the world
    unattached.
    For them there is nothing
    dear or undear.
    Developing
    the factors for Awakening,
    faculties,
    & strengths,
    attaining the foremost peace,
    without fermentation, they
    are entirely
    Unbound.
:anjali:
SarathW
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Re: 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'

Post by SarathW »

The six sense spheres contact is a bait. Don't bite it.

http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/96/talk/1962/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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BlackMagic
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Re: 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'

Post by BlackMagic »

perkele wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:37 pm
SN 17.3: Kumma Sutta - The Turtle wrote:Staying at Savatthi. "Monks, gains, offerings, & fame are a cruel thing, a harsh, bitter obstacle to the attainment of the unexcelled rest from bondage.

"Once, monks, a large family of turtles had lived for a long time in a certain freshwater lake. Then one turtle said to another, 'My dear turtle, don't go to that area.' But the turtle went to that area, and because of that a hunter lanced him with a harpoon. So he went back to the first turtle. The first turtle saw him coming from afar, and on seeing him said to him, 'I hope, dear turtle, that you didn't go to that area.'

"'I went to that area, dear turtle.'

"'Then I hope you haven't been wounded or hurt.'

"'I haven't been wounded or hurt, but there's this cord that keeps dragging around behind me.'

"'Yes, dear turtle, you're wounded, you're hurt. It was because of that cord that your father & grandfather fell into misfortune & disaster. Now go, dear turtle. You are no longer one of us.'

"The hunter, monks, stands for Mara, the Evil One. The harpoon stands for gains, offerings, & fame. The cord stands for delight & passion. Any monk who relishes & revels in gains, offerings, & fame that have arisen is called a monk lanced by the harpoon, who has fallen into misfortune & disaster. The Evil One can do with him as he will. That's how cruel gains, offerings, & fame are: a harsh, bitter obstacle to the attainment of the unexcelled rest from bondage.

"So you should train yourselves: 'We will put aside any gains, offerings, & fame that have arisen; and we will not let any gains, offerings, & fame that have arisen keep our minds consumed.' That's how you should train yourselves."



________________________________________________________________________________

See also: SN 17.5; SN 17.8
What do you think about this sutta?

:anjali:
It's a nice children's story as an introduction to the Bhavacakra and uniformity while at school... not to be led off course by peoples pants, shirts, phones, phone dongle etc. as that is the spear. Hunter is neither good or bad unless one cannot see the hunter in oneself; bringing the wrong food home to family.

Basically a one robe, one bowl teaching.

Why does science class need a hello kitty dongle?

The child's talking just gets lower and lower in volume retreating back into themself... to science class to search for the correct food.

:thanks: For sharing; world heritage has quite a few of these as "cannon" based on location; Aesop is a nice collection for ethics.
What has happened; Is that which has yet to come. What will be ...Already is.
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