Coffee, Chocolate and the 5th Precept

[Gwi]

Surā = liquor
merayå = fermented liquor
(with alcohol or ZERO alcohol)
majjå = Intoxicating substance
(alcohol and drugs/marijuana)

Bhikkhu Bodhi going over the Pāḷi:

The fifth precept reads: Surāmerayamajja-pamādaṭṭhānāveramaṇī-sikkhāpadaṃ samādiyāmi, “I undertake the training rule to abstain from fermented and distilled intoxicants which are the basis for heedlessness.” The word meraya means fermented liquors, sura liquors which have been distilled to increase their strength and flavour. The word majja, meaning an intoxicant, can be related to the rest of the passage either as qualified by surāmeraya or as additional to them. In the former case the whole phrase means fermented and distilled liquors which are intoxicants, in the latter it means fermented and distilled liquors and other intoxicants. If this second reading is adopted the precept would explicitly include intoxicating drugs used non-medicinally, such as the opiates, hemp, and psychedelics. But even on the first reading the precept implicitly proscribes these drugs by way of its guiding purpose, which is to prevent heedlessness caused by the taking of intoxicating substances

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/wheel282.html

Kafein not included.

The issue isn't if such-and-such a substance is included, but rather if a fermented (meraya) or distilled (sura) intoxicant (majja) can lead to heedlessness.

In modern times, many drugs wouldn't fall under the fermented (meraya) part of the the precept, but many chemically or naturally distilled substances would fall under the distilled (sura) part—which is why things such as heroin, cocaine, LSD and so on would fall under the precept (because they are distilled and lead to heedlessness).

Now, whether or not caffeine is an intoxicant that leads to heedlessness is debatable—that it is distilled is factual.

Simple, 5th percepts =
liquor (0% or 0,...%) and Intoxicating substance.


Caffeine not liquor, not Intoxicating substance.
In my life, i never heard people say caffeine like
Liquor or like as marijuana.

Many people saying caffeine not good,
But SODA more (not good) than caffeine.

1 soda = +/- 5 tsp of sugar.

Why just talking caffeine??


Soda = not for kid!

[samseva]

Caffeine not liquor, not Intoxicating substance.
In my life, i never heard people say caffeine like
Liqour or like as marijuana.

Coffee is not a distilled liquor?

And it's not the modern definition of a liquor like vodka—which you might be confusing—it's the standard definition of a liquid:

liquor | ˈlɪkə |
noun [mass noun]

1 alcoholic drink, especially distilled spirits.

2 liquid in which something has been steeped or cooked.
• liquid which drains from food during cooking.
• the liquid from which a substance has been crystallized or extracted.
• water used in brewing.

(The reason why liquor is used as a modern synonym for "strong alcohol drink" is because it is distilled—hence, liquor.)

[Gwi]

Caffeine not liquor, not Intoxicating substance.
In my life, i never heard people say caffeine like
Liqour or like as marijuana.

Coffee is not a distilled liquor?

And it's not the modern definition of a liquor like vodka—which you might be confusing—it's the standard definition of a liquid:

liquor | ˈlɪkə |
noun [mass noun]

1 alcoholic drink, especially distilled spirits.

2 liquid in which something has been steeped or cooked.
• liquid which drains from food during cooking.
• the liquid from which a substance has been crystallized or extracted.
• water used in brewing.

(The reason why liquor is used as a modern synonym for "strong alcohol drink" is because it is distilled—hence, liquor.)

Yeah, not

[samseva]

Yeah, not

It's literally the dictionary defintion:

liquor | ˈlɪkə |
noun [mass noun]

1 alcoholic drink, especially distilled spirits.

2 liquid in which something has been steeped or cooked.
• liquid which drains from food during cooking.
• the liquid from which a substance has been crystallized or extracted.
• water used in brewing.

Okay then...

[Gwi]

Yeah, not

It's literally the dictionary defintion:

liquor | ˈlɪkə |
noun [mass noun]

1 alcoholic drink, especially distilled spirits.

2 liquid in which something has been steeped or cooked.
• liquid which drains from food during cooking.
• the liquid from which a substance has been crystallized or extracted.
• water used in brewing.

Okay then...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distillation

[samseva]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distillation

That's laboratory distillation of a chemical present in a liquid.

[Gwi]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distillation

That's laboratory distillation of a chemical present in a liquid.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquor

The origin of "liquor" and its close relative
"liquid" was the Latin verb liquere, meaning
"to be fluid". According to the Oxford English
Dictionary, an early use of the word in the
English language, meaning simply "a liquid",
Can be dated to 1225. The first use the OED
mentions of its meaning "a liquid for drinking"
occurred in the 14th century. Its use as a
Term for "an intoxicating alcoholic drink"
appeared in the 16th century.

[samseva]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquor

The origin of "liquor" and its close relative
"liquid" was the Latin verb liquere, meaning
"to be fluid". According to the Oxford English
Dictionary, an early use of the word in the
English language, meaning simply "a liquid",
Can be dated to 1225. The first use the OED
mentions of its meaning "a liquid for drinking"
occurred in the 14th century. Its use as a
Term for "an intoxicating alcoholic drink"
appeared in the 16th century.

Exactly.

The Pāḷi word dates much more than that (and had nothing to do with laboratory distillation).

[Gwi]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquor

The origin of "liquor" and its close relative
"liquid" was the Latin verb liquere, meaning
"to be fluid". According to the Oxford English
Dictionary, an early use of the word in the
English language, meaning simply "a liquid",
Can be dated to 1225. The first use the OED
mentions of its meaning "a liquid for drinking"
occurred in the 14th century. Its use as a
Term for "an intoxicating alcoholic drink"
appeared in the 16th century.

Exactly.

The Pāḷi word dates much more than that (and had nothing to do with laboratory distillation). And, the translation of the Pāḷi term using the English word "liquor" was done after the 16th century.

Sūrå = intoxicating drink = liquor

Thats to long to say intoxicating drink,
So (maybe) people using liquor.
Some people saying alcohol, beer, etc.

I dunt drink liquor, but i always say:
"Beer" for all liquor

It is good to using (translate) "liquor" (intoxicating drink).

Merayå = liquor with alcohol or zero alcohol
(alcoholic liquor or not)
Majjå = intoxicating substance (drugs)