binocular wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:10 pm
I think what needs to be considered is that some people just don't think that what they say could be hurtful to others. Some people just are quite rough or thick-skinned. This is not to excuse them; it's just that it isn't appropriate to assume that everyone does or should operate by the same standards of what constitutes hurtful speech.
This is correct in my opinion. To the extent the comment is intended to be directed at my decision to create these Right Speech threads, I have never posited nor proposed that everyone does or should operate by the same standard. Rather, I have sought to elicit communication about Right Speech and the benefits of taking personal responsibility for one's volitional actions/words and the potential harmful or skillful effect on self/others.
Moreover, some people, sometimes, really do want to hurt others with their words, and they don't want to be kind and harmless.
In short, the situation is more complex than what you present it as.
I think my Right Speech Topics have incorporated this complexity.
When one refuses to accept personal responsibility for the potential or real effects of ones actions/words on others, it is a cop-out and a self-proclaimed license to engage in unskillful, harmful behavior toward others.
But you're focusing only on one side of the matter, and that is the speaker's. In compliment, you can also find many suttas that speak about the listener, and how as a listener, one should take the words of others with a grain of salt etc.
I have not focused only on the speaker. As you will note in the Topic cited above, there is significant focus on the listener as well.
I find that the suttas give a far more detailed and comprehensive take on the matter than you have so far.
I have no doubt the suttas give far more detailed and comprehensive information. There is no way a Topic created here will cover all the bases. What I have tried to do is start a discussion about Right Speech. In response, people have appeared to try to avoid the Topic through the following means: (a) changing the subject to the listener's responsibilities; (b) questioning my personal motives for raising such Topics; and (c) completely avoiding any discussion about personal responsibility.
Perhaps the actual topic of these recent threads about communication is about how to find a balance between the two sides of communication (ie. as a speaker and as a listener) for oneself, alone and when part of a group?
That would be a fine separate Topic. However, that is not what my Right Speech Topics have been intended to focus on. Rather, the Right Speech topics have intended to focus on the benefits of taking personal responsibility for one's volitional actions/speech, and the potential harmful or skillful effect on self and others. This element of the discussion has been completely ignored in every single one of the Topics.