Desiring the unhapiness of some beings.

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Miguel
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Re: Desiring the unhapiness of some beings.

Post by Miguel »

But, are there passages in the Canon against that notion of happiness?
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seeker242
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Re: Desiring the unhapiness of some beings.

Post by seeker242 »

Miguel wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:00 am Hello, friends. I've had this question for some time, and as I haven't been able to come up with a solution by myself, I'd like to know what do you think about it:

When we express, by practicing mettā meditation, our wish for all beings to be happy, do we really mean all beings?
All beings unconditionally yes. If they were to find true happiness, they would stop doing evil actions. Metta doesn't wish them mistaken ideas of what happiness is, it wishes them the happiness that the Buddha teaches about. Real and true happiness, not a deluded version of happiness that isn't actually happiness. A sadist may think they are finding happiness in harming others, but they aren't. All they are finding is their mistaken idea of what happiness is, which is actually just more suffering, not happiness.
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Miguel
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Re: Desiring the unhapiness of some beings.

Post by Miguel »

Yes, Seeker242, that is what mettā seems to traditionally imply. Binocular and I are now somehow discussing a different, perhaps also valid interpretation.
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manas
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Re: Desiring the unhapiness of some beings.

Post by manas »

It is our moral duty to ensure people who have raped children, for example, are properly punished, and serve a term in jail commensurate to how much pain and distress they inflicted on their victim(s); but, that doesn't mean we have to hate them. With really evil people like this, I just try to not hate, rather than feel goodwill. To feel a sort of neutrality. The sense of being harmless, in that I won't harm them. But I'm not going to pretend I care about these people. I think the victims deserve our active care and compassion more.

:anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: Desiring the unhappiness of some beings.

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:57 pm Try practising compassion (karuṇā) instead of loving-kindness (metta).

Evil-doers are already very unhappy, and much more in need of compassion that those who usually do good deeds.
Kesamutti Sutta wrote:“Thus, Kālāmas, that noble disciple with a mind thus free from enmity and ill-will, undefiled and purified, gains four assurances (assāsā). ‘If there is another world, if there is a result and fruit of good and evil deeds, on the break-up of the body after death I will arise in a fortunate realm, in heaven.’ This is the first assurance that he or she gains. ‘If there is no other world, no result and fruit of good and evil deeds, in this very life I keep myself happy with a mind free from enmity (averaṃ) and ill-will (abyāpajjhaṃ), not oppressed by difficulties (anīghaṃ). This is the second assurance that he or she gains. ‘If evil befalls one who does evil, no evil will befall me because I have no thoughts of doing evil.’ This is the third assurance that he or she gains. ‘If evil does not befall one who does evil, I am purified in both ways, and keep myself happy.’ This is the fourth assurance that he or she gains.
The evil-doer has none of these assurances. If caught doing evil deeds, the evil-doer is likely to be beaten, flogged, imprisoned, or executed. If not caught, the evil-doer is surely heading for the lower realms after death.

What one should wish is that they meet with and understand the true Dhamma, stop doing evil deeds, learn to do good deeds, and purify their minds. If they do that difficult thing, as Aṅgulimāla did, they will deservedly find happiness. If they don't, they will never find happiness, so we should wish for them to find happiness by following the Dhamma.

Don't practise idiot compassion, though. Evil-doers deserve to be punished by the law for their crimes, and they will inherit the fruit of their evil deeds, even if they turn their lives around, as Aṅgulimāla did.
Thank you Bhante. :goodpost:
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
SN35.88
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confusedlayman
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Re: Desiring the unhapiness of some beings.

Post by confusedlayman »

unless we maintain perception of annata, we will end up with seeing beings and acquire the view of good vs bad man
dont think
tamdrin
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Re: Desiring the unhapiness of some beings.

Post by tamdrin »

There is a certain US president who I find it hard to have good thoughts towards. As well as his supporters.
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greenjuice
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Re: Desiring the unhapiness of some beings.

Post by greenjuice »

Well, all beings should be happy. Bad people should stop being bad and be happy. Though there seems to be an instance where we should think about bad things happening to bad people.

For bad people (and also people we find annoying, etc) the Buddha suggested five attitudes:
1 practicing goodwill towards them,
2 practicing compassion towards them,
3 practicing indifference towards them,
4 not paying attention to them, or
5 saying "This person is the owner of their actions, heir to their actions, born of their actions, whatever they do - good or bad - they will be the heir of it".

Personally, I practice 1 as "may they stop being bad and be happy";
I practice 2 as "may they deal with their unhappiness and stop being bad",
I practice 3 by saying to myself "there is no point of me being upset by this, it doesn't do any good, bad deeds are not worthy to be the cause of my distress, I should be indifferent and calm and help (to stop or mend their bad deeds) if I can",
I practice 4 in cases where there isn't anything I can do about it, I say to myself the same as the former, only I end with "I should ignore this and not pay too much attention to it".

And finally I say 5 to myself in the sense of "I don't need to be upset about this, ultimately their kamma will bear fruit and they will get what they deserve". This one can be dangerous if one accepts malevolence into one's mind, but I think it can be done in a indifferent and neutral mindset, and actually as a way to achieve calmness, to not be upset about the bad deeds that were done by someone.
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