Manopubbangama wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:01 pm
You don't really think that people turned off by gay sex-orgies and violent rape inside of an ostensibly Buddhist Sangha are necessarily "frigid" and "puritanical" Westerners, do you?
Seems like a bit of a false dichotomy?
Please clarify, because this statement sounds like it could be inadvertently promoting deviancy.
Maybe you might have noted, that this was not a Theravada Buddhist Sangha, not even on at least the second look an "ostensibly Buddhist Sangha" -- but a lineage of Tantric Mahasiddhis with a master having formally renounced any monastic vows so that he can live an unencumbered 'New Age lifestyle'.
Even though of course I do not promote 'deviancy' (whatever you could mean with this term in such a context), I promote that people behave in an adult way when knowingly entering a sphere where there is a different baseline of behavior to what they might be accustomed to or approve... or maybe simply not partake and socialize with such people in the first place.
Our western societies are becoming increasingly infantilized, and taking responsibility for own actions becomes quite uncommon: I would posit that this is the opposite of Mindfulness, actually.
A few examples, if you please:
- if I abhor the killing of animals, I do not go into a steakhouse and start complaining that there is no vegan option on the menu
- if I abhor crude jokes and language, I do not sit in an open standup comedy and complain to the audience that I rather would wish to enjoy silence
- if I abhor alcohol, I do not sit in a beer garden and complain to my table neighbors that, indeed, they are drinking beer
- if I abhor the taking of drugs, I do not sit down together with the junkies at the railway station and then complain that a dealer offered me a fix
- if I abhor loud music, merriment and dancing, I do not go to a techno rave and go to the DJ and ask that the music be toned down
- if I only would wish to eat one meal at a certain time, I do not go to a burger eating contest and complain to the judges that eating only ten mouthfuls from a bowl did not win me a prize
- if I abhor cosmetics, I do not go to a beauty contest and complain that I somehow were not chosen to be in the lineup
- if I abhor handling money, I do not send a CV to a big bank and then complain that a large part of my job is related to financial matters
- if I abhor that I have no full control over *my* possessions, I do not go to live in a no-possession Ashram and complain to the Guru that my watch and golden rings were taken from me
and yes, if I do not wish somebody to talk openly about Lingams and Yonis, I do not go to live under Shaivists, or if I do not wish to partake in a tantric orgy, I also would think it really, really stupid to live in a centre where this is hapening and then enter a room full with drugged-up naked people.
The world is a big place (and very often not a nice one), and there are -- if we wish it or not -- a lot of people who think nothing of breaking any of the precepts, or even enjoy doing so. I say, it would be foolish to expressely mingle with such people.
This does not promote deviancy in any way, it is a recognition that not everything around us can be forced to function as we personally believe is right and that proselyzation of our ideals will quite often not lead to the conversion of the heedless masses around us.