Sports gambling

[Disciple]

Hello everyone,
What are your views on sports gambling in regards to sila? Would it be considered unwholesome?

[bodom]

The view from the suttas:

“These are the four drains on one’s store of wealth: being debauched in sex; being debauched in drink; being debauched in gambling; and having evil people as friends, associates, & companions. Just as if there were a great reservoir with four inlets and four drains, and a man were to close the inlets and open the drains, and the sky were not to pour down proper showers, the depletion of that great reservoir could be expected, not its increase. In the same way, these are the four drains on one’s store of wealth: being debauched in sex, being debauched in drink, being debauched in gambling, and having evil people as friends, associates, & companions.

- AN 8:54

The man debauched with women,

debauched in drink,

debauched in gambling,

squanders his earnings:

That is the way leading to decline.

-Sn 1:6

"In four ways, young householder, should one who brings ruin be understood as a foe in the guise of a friend:

(i) he is a companion in indulging in intoxicants that cause
infatuation and heedlessness,
(ii) he is a companion in sauntering in streets at unseemly hours,
(iii) he is a companion in frequenting theatrical shows,
(iv) he is a companion in indulging in gambling which causes heedlessness."

- DN 31

[budo]

Gambling involves accessing a random component that you don't have control / decision over the outcome.

For example paying for a box that has a random item vs. paying for the item directly.

It's the paying for the accessibility to access a random mechanism that constitutes gambling, and so even the stock market can be used for gambling. If I give you a box for free with a random item in it, then it's not gambling because you didn't pay for it. Actually a kinder surprise egg or a pack of cards with rare items is also considered gambling.

All of these things can be a money sink compared to having a real job that pays you for your labour.

Btw, I used to program casino games for a few large real casinos and had to familiarize myself with state laws.

[DNS]

By sheer coincidence (luck? ) this was posted over at DWM today:
Buddhist poker player donates his $660,000 winnings

But that is a sheer anomaly, outlier. Most gamblers of course lose in the long-run and that is why the Buddha advised against it. It is not the gambling intrinsically, but what it does to you and your family.

[DNS]

"The only way to make money in a casino -- is to own the casino."

Steve Wynn, casino owner, mogul

[Manopubbangama]

"The only way to make money in a casino is to own the casino."

Steve Wynn, casino owner, mogul

John Dillinger may slightly disagree with him, though.

As well as Omar, from "The Wire."

[budo]

My parents have been gambling for over 30 years and they've made a lot, probably more than a full years salary for some people. They're not Buddhists though. For them though it's more about killing time, and they get free spas, hotels, and buffet with it since they're members. They go less now as I've been trying to get them to enjoy nature more.

However if you have an addictive personality who doesn't know when to walk away, then you'll be like my cousin who lost over $50K from casinos.

I would advise against gambling.

[dharmacorps]

By sheer coincidence (luck? ) this was posted over at DWM today:
Buddhist poker player donates his $660,000 winnings

But that is a sheer anomaly, outlier. Most gamblers of course lose in the long-run and that is why the Buddha advised against it. It is not the gambling intrinsically, but what it does to you and your family.

I just read this article online. Interesting he said he is donating the $ to help nuns because of the discrimination they face.

But, yes.. ill gotten gains.

[manas]

I don't think throwing money away is unwholesome in and of itself, but it's certainly unwise. I know someone who is so addicted to gambling, that as far as I know, he cannot walk away until whatever money he still has (earmarked for that activity) is gone. Recently he actually won a substantial amount on the horses, but soon lost it again, as he then used those winnings to try and win some more - and of course, he ended up broke again. I think if one has dependents it is unwholesome to be so addicted that it drains one's finances, and one can not take care of said dependents properly (this could be classed as neglect); but if it just means you end up broke and the only one who suffers is yourself, I'd just class it as stupidity.

[DNS]

I don't think throwing money away is unwholesome in and of itself, but it's certainly unwise.

Yes, I agree with this. Some people budget the amount they'll gamble and they just use it as a form of entertainment. In Vegas and other cities where there is legalized gambling, most tourists come with a budget of around $500 or so to gamble with and once that's gone, they stop. They see it as entertainment and don't blow all their money. As long as it doesn't finish one's money and they are not jeopardizing the welfare of dependents, I don't think it's wrong per se, just unwise.

[Laurens]

Hello everyone,
What are your views on sports gambling in regards to sila? Would it be considered unwholesome?

I would say it is unwholesome.

Anyone I've ever encountered who engages in gambling spends more than they win. If you're that keen on getting rid of your money you'd do better to give it to charity or to a monastery.

[Gwi]

It's wrong livelihood.

If wrong, is it worth doing?

[confusedlayman]

How it is ill goten gains qhen he is not cheating the casino machine ?

[bodom]

It's wrong livelihood.

If wrong, is it worth doing?

Source from the suttas? Not necessarily disagreeing with you, the Buddha warned of the dangers of gambling but I've never seen him list gambling under wrong livelihood.

[Gwi]

MN 141--Sacca-vibhangga Suttank


DN 31--Singgalaka Suttank

"... And what are the six ways of wasting one's possessions
what not to follow? ... Liquor ... Gambling, etc."