I read every reply and quote, and I thank you all. Reading some of them, I literally got tears in my eyes - because, I really do want to learn how to be free from ill-will, towards any being whatsoever. It has come to mean more to me lately, especially. I can see how much freer my heart would feel, were I able to simply 'not go there' anymore. To bring forth more wholesome fabrications to bear on the difficult situation (ie, hearing of such crimes in the news, etc).
I could reply to each comment individually, but I would prefer to just state that I read every reply, and that I will note what especially resonates with me, from reading the sum total of your helpful contributions.
Equanimity: all beings are owners of their kamma, heirs to their kamma, born of their kamma, related through their kamma, abide supported by their kamma...whatever kamma they shall do, for good of for ill, of that they will be the heir.."
I need more equanimity in general, also the ability to let go of the notion that i could somehow protect all those vulnerable kids (a wholesome sentiment, but unrealistic in the extreme! and of course I've always known it's impossible, but the wish has been there at times) - in any case, they too might be experiencing the results of past bad kamma, of course we cannot know at this stage, but we have all probably done some atrocious things during our long,long wandering though Samsara...and probably paid dearly for that also, although without the higher knowledge of recollection of previous lives, we can only take that as a 'reasonable working hypothesis' for now, one that does make good sense to me, however. In a sense, no-one is truly innocent; we're all creating & reaping kamma all the time.
I will look up that sutta where it says, 'what should I expect?' Was the Buddha implying here, 'this is what happens in Samsaric life, why are you so surprised?' or something along those lines?
Lastly, someone wrote about wishing the folks doing great harm to others, would cease and desist - in other words, 'may you learn the causes for true happiness, and act on that knowledge for your own benefit, and that of others', or words to that effect, which would entail ceasing & desisting from the evil actions they are doing, of course. When I contemplate that, I feel this sense of sadness, yes, but not anger. I can feel compassion for both victim and aggressor. I think my 'blockage' regarding this issue, is being resolved, thanks to all your good advice. I'm not saying there is not work to do, just that, I have some great advice and links to suttas I can utilize.
As I wrote in my opening post, the wish to be free of ill-will, has been steadily increasing within me for a while. In a sense, my heart has grown somewhat 'weary' of ill-will; there's this perception of it as a burden (and as an 'illness', as in the five hindrances simile). Not just because it hinders meditation, but because, I would like to be able to extend goodwill to all beings, without exception - and now I feel, I'm on the path to that.
This Forum is a great blessing, that we can get assistance like this, from around the world. A heartfelt thanks to everyone once more.
So to finish off...
May all beings without exception, abide in goodwill & kindness, learn the causes for true happiness, and act in such a way that brings happiness to both themselves and others.
Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
Re: Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
Re: Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
manas wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:59 am ...
This Forum is a great blessing, that we can get assistance like this, from around the world. A heartfelt thanks to everyone once more.
So to finish off...
May all beings without exception, abide in goodwill & kindness, learn the causes for true happiness, and act in such a way that brings happiness to both themselves and others.
That was a very beautiful post to close the thread.
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
- confusedlayman
- Posts: 6258
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
- Location: Human Realm (as of now)
Re: Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
Stop creating human being and see aggregates as aggregates.JohnK wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:13 pmmanas wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:59 am ...
This Forum is a great blessing, that we can get assistance like this, from around the world. A heartfelt thanks to everyone once more.
So to finish off...
May all beings without exception, abide in goodwill & kindness, learn the causes for true happiness, and act in such a way that brings happiness to both themselves and others.
That was a very beautiful post to close the thread.
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Re: Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
Yet the Buddha taught metta towards all beings, amongst other “being”-related Dhamma. There are stages in the path, and for some, having intermediary purification of mind of this kind can be useful without going straight to not seeing beings and only seeing aggregates.
Re: Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
It's also important to point out that because of the cosmology presented by the Buddha that everyone has been like that at one point in their rebirths, even the Buddha himself. But that's only if you accept the premise that rebirth happens.
I suppose one way is to imagine you yourself were once that evil, but you somehow managed to find a way out. What would you feel for such an evil person then?
I suppose one way is to imagine you yourself were once that evil, but you somehow managed to find a way out. What would you feel for such an evil person then?
I still have defilements.
-
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:19 am
Re: Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
Hatreds do not die by hatred alone,
Only by love do they cease. -Dhammapada (the Buddha's own words)
I'm new here but I think the Buddha would be about letting go. I believe the Buddha would've summoned the courage within even though it's horrible because the Buddha abides in love, wisdom, and COMPASSION. Those abused are abused because of their past deeds, just like you are suffering internal struggle by seeing or not what befalls them. Letting go isn't easy, but always necessary because it takes letting go of what you're holding onto to be free and that's life's gift to you, freedom, all you have to do is let go.
It may sound rude but all the baggage of resentment, fear, worrying or whatever your holding onto is robbing you of your joy. I'm sorry you seem so mad but if you maybe let go, you'd get some ease.
Transcend the 8
Only by love do they cease. -Dhammapada (the Buddha's own words)
I'm new here but I think the Buddha would be about letting go. I believe the Buddha would've summoned the courage within even though it's horrible because the Buddha abides in love, wisdom, and COMPASSION. Those abused are abused because of their past deeds, just like you are suffering internal struggle by seeing or not what befalls them. Letting go isn't easy, but always necessary because it takes letting go of what you're holding onto to be free and that's life's gift to you, freedom, all you have to do is let go.
It may sound rude but all the baggage of resentment, fear, worrying or whatever your holding onto is robbing you of your joy. I'm sorry you seem so mad but if you maybe let go, you'd get some ease.
Transcend the 8
-
- Posts: 1784
- Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
- Location: United States
Re: Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
I think believing in karma helps with this. Its easier to feel sympathy for terrible people if you know they will suffer excruciating torment in a hell realm or future existence for their behavior. Sometimes i actually feel more sympathy for bad people than for good people who are suffering now. I read in one jataka tale, someone carved up the Bodhisatta in a lifetime that he was a hermit and the bodhisatta felt nothing but compassion for him knowing what was gonna happen to him because of it.
What i do when i do metta toward bad ppl is wish for them to find the dhamma and cease thier reprehensible behavior, not just for the benefit of other people but for thier own benefit and safety as well.
What i do when i do metta toward bad ppl is wish for them to find the dhamma and cease thier reprehensible behavior, not just for the benefit of other people but for thier own benefit and safety as well.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama
"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
Re: Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
Metta is a quality that gains strength through repetition you start doing metta with a dear loved one parents teachers pets then your love gets bigger and bigger when your heart has been seeded with these loving thoughts there is a super amount of metta then when the love is so strong you find no difficulty sending well wishes to evil persons metta is very powerful.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
Re: Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
I feel like you are ignoring the trees because the size of the forest has overwhelmed you. Sure, since I am living in a different continent than the victims of Peter Scully are, that doesn't mean I can just go bah humbug and express metta to everyone involved. Love bombing can only go so far if we are really bothered by the crimes done by these people. Let's be honest, how does metta help the victims cope with the reality? How does a few words help with the therapy bills the victim now has to pay to cope?
These are the questions that must be answered when we broaden our horizons too much. I can't do much regarding Peter Scully but can throw a few dollars I have to a charity that oversees his victims and hope that goes towards their therapy bills. As for the past life karma cope - barbie and ken killers - Canadian serial killers. They did their rounds decades ago and Ken got jail for life. Barbie, she got a few years and ended up marrying her lawyer and is now a housewife with kids. If I was related to a victim I would be deeply saddened but that's just the Canadian justice system.
Corruption and Injustice are everywhere actually. The least you can do is when it comes to your neck of the woods, let the predator face justice and make sure of it. Not with hate but with objectivity. Remember suffering is not an excuse, as the others said hope the wrongdoer realizes the error of their ways. Until then, actions have consequences.
Re: Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
this is not to be understood like an instant recipe.manas wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:09 pm However, I'm trying to be a disciple of the Buddha. Hard as this might be, I want to know, from the suttas if possible, what he would advise regarding goodwill towards even very evil people. If the Buddha advised that we ought to somehow extend goodwill even towards such monsters, well, I will attempt to follow his instructions - although, I'm going to need some help with this.
Purpose of metta is the establishment in that brahmavihara. This is an state of mind to be realized by taking other beings like the object.
When we cannot develop metta focused in some beings because some strong rejection, we should avoid that object. Then, when metta will be realized with a different object, those obstacles will start to be vanished gradually and slowly, in a quite natural way. Metta acts invisible and powerful for the mind.
However, there is no sense in starting a practice of metta using strong objects of rejection. Forget those beings at that point and be focused in what can awake metta inside yours. According the depth you develop, then you will realize how those feelings of rejection become less protagonists and important.
The Path can grow when we work to polish ourselves instead to third people. It would be better to forget that people at that moment. At least I understand in this way.
- confusedlayman
- Posts: 6258
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
- Location: Human Realm (as of now)
Re: Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
I think only anamagi and arhant can radiate metta to all without problem
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Re: Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
zerotime wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:01 amthis is not to be understood like an instant recipe.manas wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:09 pm However, I'm trying to be a disciple of the Buddha. Hard as this might be, I want to know, from the suttas if possible, what he would advise regarding goodwill towards even very evil people. If the Buddha advised that we ought to somehow extend goodwill even towards such monsters, well, I will attempt to follow his instructions - although, I'm going to need some help with this.
Purpose of metta is the establishment in that brahmavihara. This is an state of mind to be realized by taking other beings like the object.
When we cannot develop metta focused in some beings because some strong rejection, we should avoid that object. Then, when metta will be realized with a different object, those obstacles will start to be vanished gradually and slowly, in a quite natural way. Metta acts invisible and powerful for the mind.
However, there is no sense in starting a practice of metta using strong objects of rejection. Forget those beings at that point and be focused in what can awake metta inside yours. According the depth you develop, then you will realize how those feelings of rejection become less protagonists and important.
The Path can grow when we work to polish ourselves instead to third people. It would be better to forget that people at that moment. At least I understand in this way.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Re: Help wanted: what do suttas say, about metta even for very evil people?
It's possible to have metta for them if you try to understand why they are like that. Most if not all of these people will be psychopathic, they won't have any empathy for others. Image all the crazy things you would do if you didn't have any empathy...
Is it their fault that they ended up like this? I would say no, they made the negative kamma for this at some point in the past, but they are wanderers in samsara, they never deliberately chose this condition they have. They are just migrating up and down the various realms, making good and bad kamma along the way. Just like we have been.
We see them as evil because we project our own humanity onto them, and then conclude that they should have known better, but of course, they didn't.
If you look at the lives of psychopaths and child abusers, they almost always grew up in abusive households, and in the case of child abusers, they had exactly this same thing done to them when they were children. They never got a chance to learn empathy and compassion because it wasn't there for them when they were growing up. So in reality they never stood a chance at becoming a decent, moral person.
Reflecting like this helps me have empathy for them, I feel Karuna is actually very appropriate.
Is it their fault that they ended up like this? I would say no, they made the negative kamma for this at some point in the past, but they are wanderers in samsara, they never deliberately chose this condition they have. They are just migrating up and down the various realms, making good and bad kamma along the way. Just like we have been.
We see them as evil because we project our own humanity onto them, and then conclude that they should have known better, but of course, they didn't.
If you look at the lives of psychopaths and child abusers, they almost always grew up in abusive households, and in the case of child abusers, they had exactly this same thing done to them when they were children. They never got a chance to learn empathy and compassion because it wasn't there for them when they were growing up. So in reality they never stood a chance at becoming a decent, moral person.
Reflecting like this helps me have empathy for them, I feel Karuna is actually very appropriate.
'Suppose there were a beetle, a dung-eater, full of dung, gorged with dung, with a huge pile of dung in front of him. He, because of that, would look down on other beetles: 'Yes, sirree! I am a dung-eater, full of dung, gorged with dung, with a huge pile of dung in front of me!' - SN 17.5