[SOLVED] In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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lavantien
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[SOLVED] In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by lavantien »

Hi everyone, does this sentence indicates that spotless moral purity can lead directly to Arahantship?

Please explain and clarify to me about the bolded passage, if you have any canonical references about this point I would like to know too.
http://www.aimwell.org/26-brahmana.html wrote: A Saint Has No Intimacy With Any

“Who is not intimate with householders nor the homeless,
Who wanders without an abode, without desires — I call a Saint.”404

The Cave Dwelling Elder
Having obtained a meditation object from the Teacher, a certain monk took up residence in a cave. A goddess dwelt in the cave had to leave to make way for him. When the elder stayed for the Rains, she reflected on his virtue, and not seeing the slightest fault, she contrived some pretext to drive him away. The deity possessed the son of the elder’s lay supporter, and told her to sprinkle her son’s head with the water used to wash the elder’s feet. When the lady did this, her son was cured. Back at the cave, the deity told the elder not to enter as he had defiled his moral purity by practising medicine. The monk was not angry, but instead reflected on his moral purity, concluded that it was spotless, and gained Arahantship. Then he admonished the deity and told her to leave. Later, he reported the whole incident to the other monks. When they asked if he was angry with the deity, he replied that he was not. The monks reported this to the Buddha, thinking that the elder was speaking falsehood. The Buddha uttered the above verse, to confirm the elder’s attainment of Arahantship. On the conclusion of the discourse many attained Stream-winning.
Last edited by lavantien on Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Then the Teacher, being sympathetic, and having compassion for the whole world,
said to me, “Come, monk!” That was my ordination.
Staying alone in the wilderness, meditating tirelessly,
I have completed what the Teacher taught, just as the victor advised me.

In the first watch of the night, I recollected my past lives.
In the middle watch of the night, I purified my clairvoyance.
In the last watch of the night, I shattered the mass of darkness."
- KN Thag 12.2
chownah
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Re: In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by chownah »

I don't recognize this as being a theravada text. Do you know where this text comes from?
chownah
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lavantien
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Re: In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by lavantien »

chownah wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:51 am I don't recognize this as being a theravada text. Do you know where this text comes from?
chownah
I think this is the commentary (summary of the given commentary passage to be exact) for the Dhammapada verses, included in the Tipitaka, and I recognize them as Theravada texts.

I found another translation and elaboration of the commentary for Dhp verse 404, you can see it's basically the same source, just different elaborations
https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/verseload.php?verse=404 wrote: ...
The cave-spirit possessed the son of the elderly woman from the house where the thera usually went for his alms-food. He caused the boy to behave in a very peculiar way, turning his head backwards, and rolling his wide open eyes. His mother got alarmed and was in tears. The cave-spirit, who possessed the boy, then said "Let your teacher, the thera, wash his feet with water and pour that water on the head of your son." The next day when the thera came to her house for alms-food, she did as she was advised by the cave-spirit and the boy was left in peace. The cave-spirit went back to the cave and waited at the entrance for the return of the thera. When the thera returned from his alms-round, the cave-spirit revealed himself and said, "I am the spirit guarding this cave. O you physician, do not enter this cave." The thera knew that he had lived a clean life from the day he had become a thera, so he replied that he did not remember practising medicine. Then the cave-spirit accused him that in that very morning he had cured a young boy possessed by an ogre at the house of the elderly woman. But the thera reflected that it was not, in fact, practising medicine and he realized that even the cave spirit could find no other fault with him. That gave him a delightful satisfaction (piti) with himself, and abandoning piti and concentrating hard on Insight Meditation he attained arahatship then and there, while still standing at the entrance to the cave.
...
And thank you for the opportunity, because of your query that I continue to read further material and encounter the above (more detail) explanation, so it's because of his spotless moral conducts, joy springs up, and further aids him towards the end goal, just like the Buddha teach in this sutta.
https://suttacentral.net/an11.2 wrote: “Mendicants, an ethical person, who has fulfilled ethical conduct, need not make a wish: ‘May I have no regrets!’ It’s only natural that an ethical person has no regrets.

When you have no regrets you need not make a wish: ‘May I feel joy!’ It’s only natural that joy springs up when you have no regrets.

When you feel joy you need not make a wish: ‘May I experience rapture!’ It’s only natural that rapture arises when you’re joyful.

When your mind is full of rapture you need not make a wish: ‘May my body become tranquil!’ It’s only natural that your body becomes tranquil when your mind is full of rapture.

When your body is tranquil you need not make a wish: ‘May I feel bliss!’ It’s only natural to feel bliss when your body is tranquil.

When you feel bliss you need not make a wish: ‘May my mind be immersed in samādhi!’ It’s only natural for the mind to become immersed in samādhi when you feel bliss.

When your mind is immersed in samādhi you need not make a wish: ‘May I truly know and see!’ It’s only natural to truly know and see when your mind is immersed in samādhi.

When you truly know and see you need not make a wish: ‘May I grow disillusioned!’ It’s only natural to grow disillusioned when you truly know and see.

When you’re disillusioned you need not make a wish: ‘May I become dispassionate!’ It’s only natural to grow dispassionate when you’re disillusioned.

When you’re dispassionate you need not make a wish: ‘May I realize the knowledge and vision of freedom!’ It’s only natural to realize the knowledge and vision of freedom when you’re dispassionate.

And so, mendicants, the knowledge and vision of freedom is the purpose and benefit of dispassion. Dispassion is the purpose and benefit of disillusionment. Disillusionment is the purpose and benefit of truly knowing and seeing. Truly knowing and seeing is the purpose and benefit of immersion. Immersion is the purpose and benefit of bliss. Bliss is the purpose and benefit of tranquility. Tranquility is the purpose and benefit of rapture. Rapture is the purpose and benefit of joy. Joy is the purpose and benefit of not having regrets. Not having regrets is the purpose and benefit of skillful ethics. And so, mendicants, good qualities flow on and fill up from one to the other, for going from the near shore to the far shore.”
"Then the Teacher, being sympathetic, and having compassion for the whole world,
said to me, “Come, monk!” That was my ordination.
Staying alone in the wilderness, meditating tirelessly,
I have completed what the Teacher taught, just as the victor advised me.

In the first watch of the night, I recollected my past lives.
In the middle watch of the night, I purified my clairvoyance.
In the last watch of the night, I shattered the mass of darkness."
- KN Thag 12.2
SarathW
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Re: [SOLVED] In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by SarathW »

A monk has to follow the Noble Eightfold Path to attain Arahantship.
In summary, it is Sila, Samadhi, and Panna.
Moral purity is not a sufficient cause for attaining Arahantship.
However, without spotless moral purity, you can't attain it either.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: [SOLVED] In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by confusedlayman »

SarathW wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:40 am A monk has to follow the Noble Eightfold Path to attain Arahantship.
In summary, it is Sila, Samadhi, and Panna.
Moral purity is not a sufficient cause for attaining Arahantship.
However, without spotless moral purity, you can't attain it either.
When u see emptiness of everything ur moral character is good during emptiness cognition. Later u still might get delusion but emptiness is cure or medicine
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: [SOLVED] In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by SteRo »

SarathW wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:40 am A monk has to follow the Noble Eightfold Path to attain Arahantship.
In summary, it is Sila, Samadhi, and Panna.
Moral purity is not a sufficient cause for attaining Arahantship.
However, without spotless moral purity, you can't attain it either.
Moral purity may be the mark of Arahantship. Why? Because purity is empty of effort.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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Re: [SOLVED] In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by DooDoot »

SteRo wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:35 am purity is empty of effort.
Sounds like Taoism. In Buddhism, purity is empty of defilement (stains) and evil (wickedness).
When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady & attained to imperturbability...
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: [SOLVED] In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by SteRo »

DooDoot wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:59 am
SteRo wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:35 am purity is empty of effort.
Sounds like Taoism. In Buddhism, purity is empty of defilement (stains) and evil (wickedness).
Purity is empty of effluents and therefore empty of effort. Otherwise Arahant would be a path which is not noble.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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Re: [SOLVED] In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by DooDoot »

SteRo wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:07 amtherefore empty of effort.
Please quote the suttas to affirm this. Thanks
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: [SOLVED] In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by SteRo »

DooDoot wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:11 am
SteRo wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:07 amtherefore empty of effort.
Please quote the suttas to affirm this. Thanks
With effluents is "siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions" and without effluents is "transcendent". See MN117
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Re: [SOLVED] In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by DooDoot »

SteRo wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:25 am With effluents is "siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions" and without effluents is "transcendent". See MN117
Fail.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by Aloka »

chownah wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:51 am I don't recognize this as being a theravada text. Do you know where this text comes from?
chownah
Its from the website of Bhikkhu Pesala. (Who is a member of Dhamma Wheel.)



.
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Re: [SOLVED] In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by nmjojola »

SteRo wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:25 am
DooDoot wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:11 am
SteRo wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:07 amtherefore empty of effort.
Please quote the suttas to affirm this. Thanks
With effluents is "siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions" and without effluents is "transcendent". See MN117
Well said :anjali:
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Re: [SOLVED] In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by Pulsar »

SteRo wrote
With effluents is "siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions" and without effluents is "transcendent". See MN117
Sometimes you write such precious things. Thank you for your efforts...
"transcendent" a word more precious than gold. The issue of "siding with merit"
With love :candle:
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Re: [SOLVED] In what ways does spotless moral purity directly lead to the highest goal?

Post by Inedible »

The three trainings depend on each other. For any one of them you need the other two.
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