lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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confusedlayman
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lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by confusedlayman »

Please let me know
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DarrenM
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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by DarrenM »

What do you think?
“Householder, you have provided the community of monks with robes, alms food, lodgings, & medicinal requisites for the sick, but you shouldn’t rest content with the thought, ‘We have provided the community of monks with robes, alms food, lodgings, & medicinal requisites for the sick.’ So you should train yourself, ‘Let’s periodically enter & remain in seclusion & rapture.’ That’s how you should train yourself.”
AN 5.176- Rapture
DarrenM
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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by DarrenM »

Don’t know if you have read this? It’s the Sotapanna handbook, which takes passages from the Pail Canon and may help answer some of your questions. :smile:

https://meditationexplorer.files.wordpr ... sion-2.pdf
“Householder, you have provided the community of monks with robes, alms food, lodgings, & medicinal requisites for the sick, but you shouldn’t rest content with the thought, ‘We have provided the community of monks with robes, alms food, lodgings, & medicinal requisites for the sick.’ So you should train yourself, ‘Let’s periodically enter & remain in seclusion & rapture.’ That’s how you should train yourself.”
AN 5.176- Rapture
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confusedlayman
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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by confusedlayman »

DarrenM wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:11 am What do you think?
Sometimes and simetimes not im not sure
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confusedlayman
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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by confusedlayman »

DarrenM wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:25 am Don’t know if you have read this? It’s the Sotapanna handbook, which takes passages from the Pail Canon and may help answer some of your questions. :smile:

https://meditationexplorer.files.wordpr ... sion-2.pdf
Thanks very much. Never read that book but its very beautiful
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Dan74
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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by Dan74 »

Hello :hello:

I think you would do well to reread your past threads. From what I can recall, folks have advised you to ground your practice and focus on your daily life time and again..

To me it sounds like you are suffering from the classical emptiness sickness, no trivial matter. The cure is not to escape further into emptiness contemplations, but REALLY TRULY GROUND YOURSELF, MIND AND BODY.

But it is not what you want to do, right? You are addicted.. :cry:

You think you're heading for some glorious attainment, right? You are not. Change course and find balance before it is too late.

Good luck.
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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by binocular »

Dan74 wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:39 pmBut it is not what you want to do, right? You are addicted..
With there being a plethora of people claiming to have attained spiritual heights, while they still lie, watch porn, listen to music, play games, what reason is there to think that those are incompatible with enlightenment or some stage of it?
How is a poor confused layman to know?
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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by dharmacorps »

Dan74 wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:39 pm Hello :hello:

I think you would do well to reread your past threads. From what I can recall, folks have advised you to ground your practice and focus on your daily life time and again..

To me it sounds like you are suffering from the classical emptiness sickness, no trivial matter. The cure is not to escape further into emptiness contemplations, but REALLY TRULY GROUND YOURSELF, MIND AND BODY.

But it is not what you want to do, right? You are addicted.. :cry:

You think you're heading for some glorious attainment, right? You are not. Change course and find balance before it is too late.

Good luck.
Dan said it well. If you aren't careful you may get stuck in a place where you are endlessly asking questions, but not acting. :anjali:
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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by mikenz66 »

binocular wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:29 pm With there being a plethora of people claiming to have attained spiritual heights, while they still lie, watch porn, listen to music, play games, what reason is there to think that those are incompatible with enlightenment or some stage of it?
How is a poor confused layman to know?
Yes, this is a problem if you take seriously any such claims from people you don't know well personally.

The obvious ones are easy to ignore. More of a problem are people on Forums like this who imply that they have some level of attainment by sounding authoritative, quoting long sutta passages, and so on. Personally, I just assume anyone posting here is as undeveloped as I am - they are useful sources of information, not people I trust as teachers.

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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by MettaDevPrac »

mikenz66 wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:04 pm
binocular wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:29 pm With there being a plethora of people claiming to have attained spiritual heights, while they still lie, watch porn, listen to music, play games, what reason is there to think that those are incompatible with enlightenment or some stage of it?
How is a poor confused layman to know?
Yes, this is a problem if you take seriously any such claims from people you don't know well personally.

The obvious ones are easy to ignore. More of a problem are people on Forums like this who imply that they have some level of attainment by sounding authoritative, quoting long sutta passages, and so on. Personally, I just assume anyone posting here is as undeveloped as I am - they are useful sources of information, not people I trust as teachers.

:heart:
Mike
This is an excellent post, especially this bit:
Personally, I just assume anyone posting here is as undeveloped as I am - they are useful sources of information, not people I trust as teachers.


I think it impossible to observe people as they are via the internet. So it would be absurd to assume anyone known or seen truly enough to trust, only through the internet, and maybe through any other media; a clear picture cannot be really known that way. It would be grasping at phantoms or pixels or one's own desires.

Mike, I am one of several here who love suttas and sharing suttas, and discussing them; I hope that doesn't creep anyone out, for me, it's just sharing what I love and find useful. I'm not a teacher; just a friend (whose actual name is unknown); that's all that is appropriate or possible for me! And I assume this to be true for everyone I only interact with via the Internet; the best they can be is a friend, and hopefully a good one as described in the suttas; may each be that (without desiring or posing or implying or assuming or projecting more.)
- MettaDevPrac
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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by MettaDevPrac »

"lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?"

No.

(I am assuming that by "hearing" you mean an equivilent to "watching" and "playing"; active, deliberate, intentional. "Listening to")

Also incompatible with such aspirations is frivolous or nonsensical talk. Are you wasting time, and others' time, with samphappalāpī? If you are, you should stop. It's not harmless to you, or others. If you are not, when asked what you are thinking, you should answer.
- MettaDevPrac
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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by alfa »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:04 am lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?
Of course. Those are the things that the Buddha did before becoming enlightened.
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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by mikenz66 »

MettaDevPrac wrote: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:16 am
mikenz66 wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:04 pm ...
This is an excellent post, especially this bit:
Personally, I just assume anyone posting here is as undeveloped as I am - they are useful sources of information, not people I trust as teachers.


I think it impossible to observe people as they are via the internet. So it would be absurd to assume anyone known or seen truly enough to trust, only through the internet, and maybe through any other media; a clear picture cannot be really known that way. It would be grasping at phantoms or pixels or one's own desires.

Mike, I am one of several here who love suttas and sharing suttas, and discussing them; I hope that doesn't creep anyone out, for me, it's just sharing what I love and find useful. I'm not a teacher; just a friend (whose actual name is unknown); that's all that is appropriate or possible for me! And I assume this to be true for everyone I only interact with via the Internet; the best they can be is a friend, and hopefully a good one as described in the suttas; may each be that (without desiring or posing or implying or assuming or projecting more.)
Yes, I think it's great to share and discuss. It's a wonderful opportunity that Forums like this give us. Just ignore anyone who claims or implies they are not deluded, though... :tongue:

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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by SteRo »

Dan74 wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:39 pm To me it sounds like you are suffering from the classical emptiness sickness, no trivial matter. The cure is not to escape further into emptiness contemplations, but REALLY TRULY GROUND YOURSELF, MIND AND BODY.
"classical emptiness sickness" is a Mahayana phenomenon, especially a Zen phenomenon. I don't think that this can be applied to the deadlock confusedlayman is trapped in because he seems to be stuck in Theravada concepts of impermanence, dukkha and anatta "with one leg" which in his case seems to foster fake emptiness ideas and "with the other leg" he seems to be stuck in the obsession of attaining some "stage of enlightenment" which requires exactly the conceit the idea of anatta should undermine.
While I concur that an emptiness conceived of as an escape cannot be perfectly pure emptiness I'd say that perfectly pure emptiness is not compatible with Theravada concepts of impermanence, dukkha and anatta. Further I'd say that fake emptiness ideas like those of confusedlayman can only be cured with perfectly pure emptiness.
The Victorious Ones have taught emptiness
As a deliverance from all views.
For those whose view is emptiness, they teach,
Nothing can be accomplished. [XIII.8]
As to sila: The conceit which fosters addiction to worldly unwise or even harmful habits is the same conceit which fosters the obsession with the idea of attaining some "stage of enlightenment".
Last edited by SteRo on Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: lie, watching porn, hearing music, playing games compatible with trying to attain first stage of enlightment?

Post by DooDoot »

:alien:
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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