Imperfect morality and sotapanna

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
thepea
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Re: Imperfect morality and sotapanna

Post by thepea »

SDC wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:41 pm
thepea wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:01 pm
SDC wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:51 pm

I'm not in a position to make the judgment, but I recommend taking a look at the Sotāpatti Saṃyutta. There are 74 suttas all about sotāpanna.
I’m not asking you to verify if I’m sotapanna or not, I’m asking based on your study of suttas and understanding, could I be a sotapanna and break precepts as I mentioned.
I don’t study the suttas as general reading,but if you or someone else posts one to prove against my position I read it and give my understanding.
I already shared some suttas a few pages back about all of things it is impossible for a sotāpanna to do, and how, technically speaking, it appears they can break all of the precepts. See the exchange starting here: https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?p=580481#p580481

My position has never been that you couldn't be based on violation of precepts. It was about the sotāpanna clearly being beyond the scope of potentiality when it comes to the recognition of what is non-Dhamma in a doctrine. It appears they would know one way or the other very easily.
Then we share a similar understanding of moral behaviour of sotapanna.
The ability to render doctrine true or false depends on the scholastic ability of the individual, translations have skewed the meaning of certain words over the years. As I do not speak Pāli and even this may have been coerced over the years slightly.
This is why when I began practicing Buddhism at the Sri lanken temple I was very confused.
Luckily I found goenka as after one course the dhamma was crystal clear.
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SDC
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Re: Imperfect morality and sotapanna

Post by SDC »

thepea wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:07 am Then we share a similar understanding of moral behaviour of sotapanna.
The ability to render doctrine true or false depends on the scholastic ability of the individual, translations have skewed the meaning of certain words over the years.
Considering it is you who has just found agreement with this implication, based on the suttas, there really is no reason to talk about skewed meanings.
thepea wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:07 am This is why when I began practicing Buddhism at the Sri lanken temple I was very confused.
This was the point I made earlier. What happens in a Sri Lankan monasteries is a tradition. It consist of interpretation. So your issues there were with tradition, not scripture. I think it would be helpful to make sure the distinction is identified rather than disregarded.
thepea
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Re: Imperfect morality and sotapanna

Post by thepea »

SDC wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:11 am
thepea wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:07 am Then we share a similar understanding of moral behaviour of sotapanna.
The ability to render doctrine true or false depends on the scholastic ability of the individual, translations have skewed the meaning of certain words over the years.
Considering it is you who has just found agreement with this implication, based on the suttas, there really is no reason to talk about skewed meanings.
thepea wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:07 am This is why when I began practicing Buddhism at the Sri lanken temple I was very confused.
This was the point I made earlier. What happens in a Sri Lankan monasteries is a tradition. It consist of interpretation. So your issues there were with tradition, not scripture. I think it would be helpful to make sure the distinction is identified rather than disregarded.
When it comes to kundalini energy or activating annicca or vedana as taught by goenka this differed on the practical level.
There was no way to bridge this gap with members there.
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DooDoot
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Re: Imperfect morality and sotapanna

Post by DooDoot »

BrokenBones wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:21 am
Obviously the Sakyans were upset at Sarakaani being an alcoholic right up to the point before he died but according to the Buddha he fulfilled the training in the moments of death.
No. :roll:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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