What if we have violated a precept?

[seeker29384]

In my past I committed a serious transgression against one of the five precepts. I'll spare you all the details. But what now? It was many years ago, but I still feel great shame. Do I go to hell? Is that it? The way the Buddha talks about these things it seems like that's the only option. If that is the only option then I suppose I have to accept it, but is it correct that those of us who have transgressed must go to hell? I know realising Nirvana cleans the slate, but realistically, I can't expect that any time soon. Is there anything we can do?

[DNS]

In Samyutta Nikaya 55.21 Mahanama said to the Buddha "Sometimes, when I enter Kapilavatthu in the evening after visiting with the Blessed One or with the monks who inspire the mind, I meet up with a runaway elephant, a runaway horse, a runaway chariot, a runaway cart, or a runaway person. At times like that my mindfulness with regard to the Blessed One gets muddled, my mindfulness with regard to the Dhamma... the Sangha gets muddled. The thought occurs to me, 'If I were to die at this moment, what would be my destination? What would be my future course?"

The Buddha answered him, "Have no fear, Mahanama! Have no fear! Your death will not be a bad one, your demise will not be bad. If one's mind has long been nurtured with conviction, nurtured with virtue, nurtured with learning, nurtured with relinquishment, nurtured with discernment, then when the body; endowed with form, composed of the four primary elements, born from mother & father, nourished with rice & porridge, subject to inconstancy, rubbing, pressing, dissolution, and dispersion; is eaten by crows, vultures, hawks, dogs, hyenas, or all sorts of creatures, nevertheless the mind — long nurtured with conviction, nurtured with virtue, learning, relinquishment, and discernment; rises upward and separates out."

Notice that the Buddha states if your mind has been long nurtured with conviction, virtue, . . . that one will still have a good rebirth and that Mahanma need not worry about his mind state if he gets trampled by a runaway elephant or chariot.

In a similar way, if one has transgressed the precepts only a few times, but has led a life of conviction, virtue, one will be fine and still have a good rebirth.

[DNS]

Angulimala killed 999 people, yet still became an Arahant.

[zerotime]

Angulimala killed 999 people, yet still became an Arahant.

in the Angulimala case we see how important is setting a break point in the heart so the action will not be repeated in any future. Like a line going down which at some point can start to go up.

Nobody knows kamma fruits, although by keeping Dhamma and with faith in the Buddha established, there is no fall in states of woe according SN.55:

"Yet if he has merely faith, merely affection for the Tathagata, that man, too, does not go to... states of woe."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .wlsh.html

[tamdrin]

Angulimala killed 999 people, yet still became an Arahant.

I don't think it's advisable to emulate this example

[Garrib]

In my past I committed a serious transgression against one of the five precepts. I'll spare you all the details. But what now? It was many years ago, but I still feel great shame. Do I go to hell? Is that it? The way the Buddha talks about these things it seems like that's the only option. If that is the only option then I suppose I have to accept it, but is it correct that those of us who have transgressed must go to hell? I know realising Nirvana cleans the slate, but realistically, I can't expect that any time soon. Is there anything we can do?

If you truly feel moral shame reflecting on what you've done, then you are unlikely to do it again - but don't get complacent. Keep your sila clean, and MAKE GOOD KAMMA. Remember the simile of the salt crystal (Lonaphala Sutta):

"'Now, a trifling evil act done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in the body, [2] undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind [i.e., painful feelings can invade the mind and stay there], undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil act done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.

'Now, a trifling evil act done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in the body,[3] developed in virtue, developed in mind [i.e., painful feelings cannot invade the mind and stay there], developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable. A trifling evil act done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment."

AND, from the Dhammapada, verse 173:

Yassa pāpam katam kammam
kusalena pithīyati
So imam lokam pabhāseti
abbhāmutto’va candimā

Whoever having done an evil deed,
covers it with a good deed,
such a one illumines this world
like the moon freed from clouds.

So - Take refuge, keep the precepts, make good merits, be kind and generous, and rejoice at how far you've come. There may be bumps in the road, but with strong determination and faith you will make it through.

There are only 5 deeds (Intentional actions) that, according to the Suttas, necessarily lead to rebirth in hell:
1. killing your father
2. killing your mother
3. killing an Arahant
4. Injuring a Buddha to the point of drawing blood (Not possible for us...)
5. Creating a schism in the sangha (My understanding is that you'd need to be ordained to do this)

And even if someone were to do one of these things, their suffering in hell would not be eternal. So, the Dhamma gives great hope and encouragement. Stay on the path, and give up the guilt (but not the moral shame and fear of wrongdoing!)

[Garrib]

Angulimala killed 999 people, yet still became an Arahant.

I don't think it's advisable to emulate this example

Certainly not!

[tom_]

I posted this thread under a throwaway name, but I think for the sake of honesty I'll take ownership of it now. Thank you very much everyone.

[confusedlayman]

if u commited a precept break then make sure u do enough of metta or 1st jhana or realize stream entry

[dharmacorps]

It may be worth reflecting that kamma is not an eye-for-an-eye process. For example, Angulimala did not need to be murdered 999 times before he could become an arahant. The Buddha said that if that were the case, nobody would become enlightened. Unless you committed matricide, patricide, or killed or wounded an arahant, you are probably OK.

[tamdrin]

I sometimes break the precept about drinking intoxicants. Giving into the craving for an occasional beer.

[SarathW]

Even Devadatta will eventually free from the woful state one day due to his good kamma in the past.
We all have done some form of bad deeds in the past and there is no point of worrying about it now.
Commit yourself to observe the precepts now and make an attempt to become a Soatapanna at least.

[Srilankaputra]

From the very beautiful Angulimala Pariita,

Yato’haṁ bhagini ariyāya jātiyā jāto,
Nābhijānāmi sañcicca pāṇaṁ jīvitā voropetā.
Tena saccena sotthi te hotu sotthi gabbhassa.

Sister, since being born in the Noble Birth,
I am not aware that I have intentionally deprived a being of life.
By this truth may you be well,
and so may the child in your womb.

Once, when going for alms, he saw or heard a woman in travail who was having much difficulty in bringing forth her child. At that, compassion arose in him and he thought: "How much do beings suffer! How much do they suffer!" On his return to the monastery, he told this to the Master who said:

"In that case, Angulimala, go into Savatthi and say to that woman: 'Sister, since I was born I have never purposely deprived a living being of life. By that truth may you and the infant be safe!'"

"Venerable Sir, by telling that, should I not knowingly speak a falsehood? For many living beings have been purposely deprived of life by me."

"Then, Angulimala, say to that woman: 'Sister since I was born with the noble birth, I have never purposely deprived a living being of life. By this truth may you and the infant be safe!'"

Angulimala's noble birth, or spiritual rebirth, began with his ordination as a monk and culminated in his attainment of sainthood.

Angulimala had it announced to that woman that he would be coming. People there put up a curtain in the woman's room, and on the other side of the curtain a chair was placed on which the monk was to sit. Now Angulimala, having arrived at the woman's house, made the asseveration of truth as Buddha had told him, and there was soon a safe delivery for mother and child.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el312.html

May be you can retake the Precepts and consider it a new beginning a new birth.

[User1249x]

You can think about it as making a terrible bussiness decision. What can you do? You take the hit, cut your losses, learn from it, obviously don't repeat it and then start grinding it out, rebuilding your bussiness properly by making good decisions.

If you keep obsessing about it and lamenting the past, that will only prevent you from getting out of the state of deprivation and poverty, it becomes sort of an excuse or a hindrance to doing the work that is necessary.

[Gwi]

In my past I committed a serious transgression against one of the five precepts. I'll spare you all the details. But what now? It was many years ago, but I still feel great shame. Do I go to hell? Is that it? The way the Buddha talks about these things it seems like that's the only option. If that is the only option then I suppose I have to accept it, but is it correct that those of us who have transgressed must go to hell? I know realising Nirvana cleans the slate, but realistically, I can't expect that any time soon. Is there anything we can do?

What will
happen if
someone
does not
keep their
promise?