Martial Arts and the Eight Precepts

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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AnUpasaka
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Martial Arts and the Eight Precepts

Post by AnUpasaka »

The first part of the seventh of the eight precepts states one should avoid "dancing, singing, music, and seeing shows" (Naccagītavāditavisūkadassanā). The same phrase is also used for the monastic precept for refraining from going to watch shows. Correspondingly, the Samaññaphala Sutta gives additional examples of shows that are avoided by bhikkhus (trans. Bhikkhu Sujato):
There are some ascetics and brahmins who, while enjoying food given in faith, still engage in seeing shows. This includes such things as dancing, singing, music, performances, and storytelling; clapping, gongs, and kettle-drums; art exhibitions and acrobatic displays; battles of elephants, horses, buffaloes, bulls, goats, rams, chickens, and quails; staff-fights, boxing, and wrestling; combat, roll calls of the armed forces, battle-formations, and regimental reviews. They refrain from such shows. This pertains to their ethics.
Thus, boxing shows (or, more precisely, muṭṭhiyuddhaṃ, an Indian kickboxing martial art) are among the class of shows that should not be watched by monks, nuns, nor laypeople practicing the eight precepts.

However, in many Buddhist countries, the monastic culture is often tied to the martial arts culture. For example, in Thailand, it is common for monks to watch, teach, or otherwise be involved with Muay Thai, and Muay Thai/Muay Boran demonstrations are sometimes held at Thai Buddhist temples and festivals. This would seem to contradict this instruction against watching shows.

Does watching martial arts performances, such as Muay Thai, breach this precept for monastics and laypeople practicing the eight precepts?
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confusedlayman
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Re: Martial Arts and the Eight Precepts

Post by confusedlayman »

AnUpasaka wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:57 am The first part of the seventh of the eight precepts states one should avoid "dancing, singing, music, and seeing shows" (Naccagītavāditavisūkadassanā). The same phrase is also used for the monastic precept for refraining from going to watch shows. Correspondingly, the Samaññaphala Sutta gives additional examples of shows that are avoided by bhikkhus (trans. Bhikkhu Sujato):
There are some ascetics and brahmins who, while enjoying food given in faith, still engage in seeing shows. This includes such things as dancing, singing, music, performances, and storytelling; clapping, gongs, and kettle-drums; art exhibitions and acrobatic displays; battles of elephants, horses, buffaloes, bulls, goats, rams, chickens, and quails; staff-fights, boxing, and wrestling; combat, roll calls of the armed forces, battle-formations, and regimental reviews. They refrain from such shows. This pertains to their ethics.
Thus, boxing shows (or, more precisely, muṭṭhiyuddhaṃ, an Indian kickboxing martial art) are among the class of shows that should not be watched by monks, nuns, nor laypeople practicing the eight precepts.

However, in many Buddhist countries, the monastic culture is often tied to the martial arts culture. For example, in Thailand, it is common for monks to watch, teach, or otherwise be involved with Muay Thai, and Muay Thai/Muay Boran demonstrations are sometimes held at Thai Buddhist temples and festivals. This would seem to contradict this instruction against watching shows.

Does watching martial arts performances, such as Muay Thai, breach this precept for monastics and laypeople practicing the eight precepts?
martial arts for body fitness maybe encouraged for lay but not fight. acc to buddhism, u can't use violence for self defence also. u can do self defence only with metta or running away or accepting the attack with forgiveness.. strongly pushing the attacker down also not encouraged as it will pain for him if he falls down
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Sam Vara
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Re: Martial Arts and the Eight Precepts

Post by Sam Vara »

AnUpasaka wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:57 am
Does watching martial arts performances, such as Muay Thai, breach this precept for monastics and laypeople practicing the eight precepts?
Yes, I would say that it is clearly ruled out. It would appear to be included under those types of shows listed in the sutta, if one takes that as a guide. That's different from the issue of whether practising the martial art is wholesome or not. It's a show.
santa100
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Re: Martial Arts and the Eight Precepts

Post by santa100 »

AnUpasaka wrote:Does watching martial arts performances, such as Muay Thai, breach this precept for monastics and laypeople practicing the eight precepts?
Sure, watching martial arts shows is pleasuring the senses. But actually practicing martial arts is disciplining the senses for it involves a lot of real pain (at least at the beginning):
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Re: Martial Arts and the Eight Precepts

Post by dharmacorps »

For someone following the 8 precepts, martial arts would be against the 7th precept. For a 5 precept holder, it may be OK, but it is still possible that it is unskillful or against the factors for enlightenment. I could see qi gong or tai chi or something like that being fine, even good for mindfulness.Then there is ai kido which is supposedly totally defensive, yet can be surprisingly violent judging by the black eyes and bruises I have seen on them.
AnUpasaka
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Re: Martial Arts and the Eight Precepts

Post by AnUpasaka »

Thank you all for the helpful responses! It does seem to be excluded, though I have found it difficult to reconcile given the close connection between Buddhism and many martial arts practices.
santa100 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:48 pm
AnUpasaka wrote:Does watching martial arts performances, such as Muay Thai, breach this precept for monastics and laypeople practicing the eight precepts?
Sure, watching martial arts shows is pleasuring the senses. But actually practicing martial arts is disciplining the senses for it involves a lot of real pain (at least at the beginning):
If someone watches a martial arts fight for pedagogical reasons (for the purposes of studying which techniques and combinations are effective) rather than for entertainment purposes, do you think this would still qualify as a breach of the precepts against watching shows for laymen holding the eight precepts and monks and nuns? For instance, are monks and nuns never permitted to watch a Muay Thai fight? Does this apply broadly to martial arts instructionals as well (such as the quoted video)?
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Martial Arts and the Eight Precepts

Post by Mahabrahma »

Martial arts are for protecting others, and it's practitioners need to have the Highest Buddhist Morality. :yingyang:
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
santa100
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Re: Martial Arts and the Eight Precepts

Post by santa100 »

AnUpasaka wrote:If someone watches a martial arts fight for pedagogical reasons (for the purposes of studying which techniques and combinations are effective) rather than for entertainment purposes, do you think this would still qualify as a breach of the precepts against watching shows for laymen holding the eight precepts and monks and nuns? For instance, are monks and nuns never permitted to watch a Muay Thai fight? Does this apply broadly to martial arts instructionals as well (such as the quoted video)?
As already mentioned, "watching shows" implies some level of entertainment/pleasure of the senses. If watching simply for research/studying, it should be legit. Everything boils down to the intention going on inside one's mind. One thing to keep in mind though, if one's able to turn his hands and feet into lethal weapons like the master in the video, one should try his best to avoid any real fight. Imagine the master in the provided video fighting a Muay Thai fight, he wouldn't even need to attack his opponent. He could just simply block any incoming punch or kick, and the force of impact would immediately shatter the opponent's bones! Or imagine him fighting an MMA fight, when the opponent tries an armlock or chokehold on him, he simply just extend his index finger, and it would tear right thru the opponent's flesh like cutting butter!
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Re: Martial Arts and the Eight Precepts

Post by Gwi »

AnUpasaka wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:57 am The first part of the seventh of the eight precepts states one should avoid "dancing, singing, music, and seeing shows" (Naccagītavāditavisūkadassanā). The same phrase is also used for the monastic precept for refraining from going to watch shows. Correspondingly, the Samaññaphala Sutta gives additional examples of shows that are avoided by bhikkhus (trans. Bhikkhu Sujato):
There are some ascetics and brahmins who, while enjoying food given in faith, still engage in seeing shows. This includes such things as dancing, singing, music, performances, and storytelling; clapping, gongs, and kettle-drums; art exhibitions and acrobatic displays; battles of elephants, horses, buffaloes, bulls, goats, rams, chickens, and quails; staff-fights, boxing, and wrestling; combat, roll calls of the armed forces, battle-formations, and regimental reviews. They refrain from such shows. This pertains to their ethics.
Thus, boxing shows (or, more precisely, muṭṭhiyuddhaṃ, an Indian kickboxing martial art) are among the class of shows that should not be watched by monks, nuns, nor laypeople practicing the eight precepts.

However, in many Buddhist countries, the monastic culture is often tied to the martial arts culture. For example, in Thailand, it is common for monks to watch, teach, or otherwise be involved with Muay Thai, and Muay Thai/Muay Boran demonstrations are sometimes held at Thai Buddhist temples and festivals. This would seem to contradict this instruction against watching shows.

Does watching martial arts performances, such as Muay Thai, breach this precept for monastics and laypeople practicing the eight precepts?
Looking muay thai (Just to show) is okay.
But, better not.
When fighting like boxing is nah.


1. Dancing: all dance
2. Singing: all song, except ballad (without music)/chanting
3. Instrument: all music n instrument (especially gaming)
4. Inappropriate shows:
adrenaline-pumping or exhilarating
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
bpallister
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Re: Martial Arts and the Eight Precepts

Post by bpallister »

I like to dance and watch boxing. is that breaking the precepts?
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